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Old 12-09-2017, 04:43   #1
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Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

It's been quite a while (I think) since wing masts on multi's have been discussed. Especially in the cruising context. And they've always intrigued me. Thus I'm curious to hear about folks experiences with them, both at sea, as well as when anchored. Including during less than pleasant weather in both circumstances. Plus any real world experiences with living with one when shorthanded. Given that they can make some boats a bit more high strung.

Also, if you're kind enough to respond to this thread, please include as much information about the boat & mast as you can. Especially what the boat had/has in terms of foils, sail area of the mast, mast width to thickness ratio (aspect ratio), etc. And how much attention/TLC the mast required trimming wise, underway, & when on the hook.

Thanks!

PS: When it comes to how they affect boats at anchor, please state what kind of rode was being used, scope, & whether or not the boat was using a bridle.
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:19   #2
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Although I've sailed 3 boats with a wing mast, I can't answer your question as I'm at work and the details you're asking for are far more than I have at hand. I will say that I'm not an expert, the mast is self adjusting but I do have 2 control lines that I use to adjust when necessary. The masts have never been a problem in any kind of weather; in bad storms last year it just feathered into the wind.

Not much help in terms of your requests, but if you haven't seen these you might read both the article and response on this page: Efficient and powerful rotating mast control on a Corsair | Corsair Marine

And from the guru of masts: https://www.ericwsponberg.com/wp-con...wing-masts.pdf

Regards,
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:44   #3
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Thanks, I'd forgotten about Eric Sponberg. He's a member here (in addition to his website) so perhaps I'll send him a note.

What boats have you had wing masts on?
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:08   #4
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

F36, F31, Condor 40
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:38   #5
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Edit: sorry just noticed this is on the multihull thread so most if this is irrevant.

I have done about 30,000nm on boats with wing masts. All monohulls. The comon problem with them on monohulls is the inversion problem as you don't have enough shroud base and can't have swept spreaders helping keep them straight. One boat I did a fair few miles in was a 100ft canting keel supermaxi. We had 3 inner forestays that had to be on after every tack. 2 that were on a quick purchase system which did enough to allow you to sheet the sails back on but then one that was on a hydrolic ram that needed to be attached and tensioned. All time consuming and actually a horrible job on the foredeck doing 12kts upwind and launching from waves. This boat had diamonds and spreaders that rotated. Anyway the mast did fall down twice on that boat....
Same thing if a 50ft canter I raced out if NZ. But we only had one inner forestay and another one for offshore rough conditions.
The area of the rig was the same as a trisail so we added numbers to the rig and this qualified us instead of a trisail. We did actually sail with storm jib and mast for a while in a Fiji race and it worked ok.
The only way around the inner forestay thing on a. Monhull is to have deck spreaders to give you a wide shroud base. Again they come with there share of issues and in fact I have lost one mast on an open 60 due to what we think might have been the deck spreader collapsing. Not ideal 2000nm from cape horn.
Can't comment much on anchoring as we didn't do too much of that but I don't remember it being a huge issue.
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Old 12-09-2017, 14:05   #6
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Hi,
A few years ago i started a thread called "Simply put, more speed" wich was about how to get more sailing speed out of our old Antigua 37 cat. We got alot of good advice.
Now the 10% extended rotating carbon wing mast has bee ordered and i expect to have it up and running by next spring.
Apart from larger sail area and the advantages of rotation, it will also weigh in at approximately half the total weight of the original rig as we are opting for dyneema shrouds.
I am not expecting anything but advantages when anchoring and reefing as the mast can be locked in position or released to move with the wind wich ever suits best.
I'll be happy rto share more when we've tried it out more
BR
Petter
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Old 13-09-2017, 11:13   #7
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

I've sailed quite a bit on Outremer 51 with carbon wing mast. I did some tests to figure out what was the additional benefits on different AWA's by rotating and keeping fixed. To be honnest, I didn't see noticeable difference. (at least a difference worth the price :the carbon stick on this specific boat is 80.000 € and 8.000 € extra if you want rotating mast.)


The biggest advantage IMO is that the reefing which is much easier. In short; if you are not racing or really too keen on trimming and try to get the maximum out of the boat, it's not worthed.


Cheers


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Old 13-09-2017, 11:51   #8
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

@Yeloya

Sorry to interrupt the thread with a little side question, but I am curious as to how reefing is easier with a rottin mast?
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Old 13-09-2017, 12:30   #9
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svrodeorm View Post
@Yeloya

Sorry to interrupt the thread with a little side question, but I am curious as to how reefing is easier with a rottin mast?
You won't have the sail & it's battens pressed up against the spreaders, & the track on the mast will be lined up with the boom, so there will be less friction on the cars/slugs. IE little to no binding I'm guessing.

What are you guys experiences with such spars in a storm? Is the sail area of the spar something which makes dealing with the boat a lot more difficut in high winds, in that it can't be reefed nor taken down. Only over rotated so that it's effects are minimized. And is this too the case when at anchor, especially in winds of 40-50kts or more?
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Old 13-09-2017, 14:30   #10
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Look a Chris White Mastfoil concept on some of his Atlantic cats.
I always thought that this is an interesting concept on a cruiser.
Reefs super fast. Possibly at the cost of a few degrees upwind, but when cruising people tend to avoid unnecessary beating upwind anyway.
Bad part of the Atlantic in my eyes are the forward sailing cockpits. Not enough weather protection in my eyes.
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Old 16-09-2017, 03:32   #11
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Thanks for the input guys. Anyone else have something to add? Stories to tell, after action reports, links to information sources, etc.
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Old 16-09-2017, 05:42   #12
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Try also Gold Coast Yachts in St. Croix. They built a lot of wingmasts for their charter cats.
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Old 24-09-2017, 11:34   #13
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Re: Wing Mast Experiences - Help! Input Wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
You won't have the sail & it's battens pressed up against the spreaders, & the track on the mast will be lined up with the boom, so there will be less friction on the cars/slugs. IE little to no binding I'm guessing.
Obviously Yes! Thanks anyway, didn't really think before typing

I too wonder as how to deal with the sail area of the rotating ( and not rottin- autofill) mast in a SERIOUS blow. My guess is to let it feather in the wind, but when the wind turns and twists? Like in gusts, and towards the later part of the storm?
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