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Old 27-10-2011, 13:22   #1
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Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

Hi everyone,

I am considering upgrading from a Mahe 36 to a Lipari 41 or a Leopard 40, one of my main reason is to get a more comfortable ride, since I plan to go up and down the US east coast, and have to "face" waves from time to time, anyone with such experience?
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Old 27-10-2011, 14:22   #2
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Re: Will an upgrade from a 36 cat to a 40er have less pitching?

Hi, Michel --

I don't mean to be difficult or evasive, but there are two answers to your question.

First, all other things being equal in terms of optimal loading for the boat, yes, more water line will almost always result in less pitching and a more comfortable ride.

However, whether those differences will be meaningful -- enough to make a significantly noticeable difference that is worth the cost is another thing entirely and, frankly, I doubt it. E.G., a 10% improvement (pitching through 40 degrees of arc rather than 44 degrees) likely wouldn't be noticed.

I think in order to make the difference "significantly" noticeable, you have to go another order of magnitude longer, like in the 50+ range, such that you could easily say, "wow, that's so much better!" Even then you might get a 20% improvement such that you're "only" pitching through 36 degrees. That's quite likely a noticeable improvement, but you're still going to pitch. And, of course, you are then spending lots more money to get it. Even then, you will still have certain conditions where you are going to be pitching and uncomfortable when going to windward with short, steep seas.

The bottom line is that unless you have that sort of money and are willing to spend it for that purpose, following the typical rules of loading (weight in the center of gravity, keeping it out of the ends) and simply waiting for better conditions are going to result in more comfortable rides.

My two-cents worth.

ID
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Old 27-10-2011, 16:41   #3
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

What ID said . . . get the weight out of the ends of the hulls and wait for better conditions. If you're offshore and caught out by weather, wait it out if possible and avoid the beating on your vessel, your crew and yourself by lying to a sea anchor. This can be very comfortable aboard a catamaran.

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Old 27-10-2011, 16:46   #4
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

Is there significant bridgedeck clearance difference?
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Old 27-10-2011, 19:42   #5
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

simple - NO. I have a 47' leopard and beating to windward is still taking a beating. i imagine it's a bit less than your 36, and I do have twice the tonnage, but still pitches with every wave
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Old 27-10-2011, 20:04   #6
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Thanks guys (gals?)
The problem I find is not from the wave slapping the bridgedeck but more the pitching and slapping on the inner hulls side. Hawaiisun comment seems to confirm everybody's comments, i was hoping for a panacea since i am faced with times when i have an agenda and have to beat, mainly from New York to Norfolk. Since the weight on the Mahe is pretty much in the center, maybe towing the dink instead of on the davits could aleviate the pitching... anybody has any comments on this?
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Old 28-10-2011, 07:05   #7
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

Michel, if conditions are such that the pitching/hobby horsing is quite uncomfortable, I wouldn't risk towing your inflatable. Its a fact of life, to some extent, with all cats and of the factors that aggravate it - underbody rocker, weight in the ends, fore/aft position of the Ce for the sailplan, weight of the rig, only the weight in the ends can be easily (or fairly easily) altered. So yes, towing the dink would help, but as it gets rougher, at what cost?

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Old 28-10-2011, 07:24   #8
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

You may be disappointed to discover that a Lipari 41 is actually 39 foot long. So is a Lavezzi 40. It appears the accountants and salesmen got control of Fountaine Pajot for awhile. I believe a Belize is really 43 foot long or even better, a Bahia is really 46 foot. I've only just bought my Bahia, but so far I'd have to say that size does matter!...Cheers
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Old 28-10-2011, 08:36   #9
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

Hi Bludden,

Your comments are the opposite of Hawaiisun, what Cat did you sail before the Bahia? As matter of fact the LP39 has 36 feet of LWL, which is around the same as the Mahe (disapointing) the Lipari 37.8' would 2 feet make a difference?

To Everyone,

I do agree and believe in waiting and that a schedule is a sailors worst ennemy, but my comments are based on SEMI rough weather, 4 to 6 feet seas, which are very frequent in the northeast, and mainly heading south with predominantly south winds, i am looking for a longer LWL.

Also the Mahe and most FP have the weight distribution pretty much in the center of the boat, I do not have much weight fore of the mast. Since I would need to navigate the ICW as a back up i am also stuck with 63' or less mast height.

Thank you all for your contribution.
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Old 29-10-2011, 06:05   #10
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

I think there are more factors in whether a cat pitches than just water line length. I was walking down the line of cats in the boatyard where my boat is currently stored and it struck me how multihull design has evolved over the years. There was the 30 year old design; fine hulls and ends with heaps of rocker, progressing to flatter underbodies, fatter hulls and particularly fat sterns (monos, especially the racers have evolved on a parallel course). The designers call it prismatic coefficient I think; this balance of buoyancy in the ends. My Bahia's bows slice nicely through the chop, but the pitching can't commence because the fat stern doesn't bury itself. Some of the modern monos look like the "skimming dish" designs from the 1930's! Undoubtedly I pay for my fat hulls in top speed, but it's the price I'm willing to pay for the comfortable motion. It also allows me to carry the ridiculous amount of crap we consider essential on our modern boats; gen sets, water makers, a/c, ducted heating, 3 frig/freezers, radar; my grandfather who taught me to sail must be spinning in his grave!!
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Old 29-10-2011, 08:41   #11
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article on hull shapes

I had a page on hull shapes and the affected sailing performance which I got from a link on these posts. I've now lost it so does anyone know what I'm talking about? It is not this one by Shuttleworth which is a good one BTW.
Multihull Design Considerations for Seaworthiness
Bluddens posts made me want to review this. BOB
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Old 29-10-2011, 08:58   #12
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

Hello. Glad for your question and the responses. I have a little 10meter (34ft)
Catalac and at times I have also been very bothered by the pitching, (How come I never seem to notice it much during sea trails and demonstrations?) Any way in a 4 1/2 month trip around the Med I made a few discoveries. Moving weight away from the ends of the boat toward the center helped a great deal. I even moved spare anchors and chain rode. Wonderfull difference. She still pitched but the ending was softer and softer. Of course my boat has a lot of great storage at both ends that invites overloading the ends of the boat. So gradually I have leaned to re-arange my storage filling the ends up with the bulky and lighter stuff and getting the heavy stuff nearer center. Even moving from a 4 stoke dingy motor to an older but much light 2 stroke helped a bunch. I like you had started thinking of a longer boat. Saved a lot of boat cost and of course operating, maintenance and marina costs. Hope it helps you as much.
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Old 29-10-2011, 09:04   #13
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

If everything else is equal then yes, pitching will decrease with length. But the reality is that it will probably not be equal. The more buoyancy and the less weight that you have out on the ends then the less hobby-horsing that you will have.
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Old 29-10-2011, 11:47   #14
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

Of all the things I might have worried about with my cat, pitching just never came to mind... do some cats pitch like monos with overhangs?
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Old 29-10-2011, 20:37   #15
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Re: Will an Upgrade from a 36' Cat to a 40'-er Have Less Pitching ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Of all the things I might have worried about with my cat, pitching just never came to mind... do some cats pitch like monos with overhangs?
Yes, older design cats with a lot of hull rocker and depth pitch more easily than newer designs with flatter bottoms and fuller sterns.

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