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Old 18-06-2013, 03:58   #151
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

Euro 350K = A$ 500K
Plus Duty A$25K
Plus Shipping A$70K
Plus GST A$60K

Total A$ 655K

I can and probably will get a very nice boat for this price. Plenty of Ozzies going to Europe to buy and sailing them in and selling.

BUT

It is much more than an 1160.
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Old 18-06-2013, 04:05   #152
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

You really don't get it do you? if you add tax to the Lagoon then likewise add tax to bring the Seawind here..........
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Old 18-06-2013, 04:11   #153
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

With respect I made it quite clear that my comments were SPECIFICALLY for Australia. It was you that took it out of context in quoting me.

But being an Aussie I really dont mind. We are all laid back here. Niceness is our mantra.
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Old 18-06-2013, 04:18   #154
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

So be fair to the equation and price the second hand Seawind the same way ie being sold into Spain, however the tax in Europe varies from 17% up..... Plus, in fairness, the values you put on shipment.

The OP's query still stands.....
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Old 18-06-2013, 04:31   #155
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

not sure if i missed the facts but, 2nd hand

lagoon 14metre boat cost less than seawind 1160

lagoon 15m boat costs less than 1250 seawind

What was suggested is that the lagoons were a much more comfortable boat to cruise the world in, given they are bigger sail ok with out haveing to tweek sails all day and generally do what they were designed for "Cruise".

It dosen't matter where they are, if cruising the world in theory you can start anywhere and finish anywhere, taxes can be avoided (to some extent) if you buy carefully,so really does not play that much a part in this.

As Frank pointed out he got a fully loaded 14 m boat for less than a not so loaded 1160 and he has a valid point (obviously people like different brands and thats OK) but i'm sure that if budget was of any concern at all Franks boat fits the bill and does what is required comfortably and economically.

If the argument is based on size only (which is the fairest comparison)

Lagoon ,plus 5-10 years cruise kitty= 1 Seawind
(lagoon 38 vs seawind 1160)

Lagoon 40/42vs seawind 1250

Although the same conclusion can be drawn on comparisions with many different boats built with higher quality fittings or hand built vs production boats. would also put lightwave,spirited38 and a few others in the same vein as Seawind

So for those of us that cast our eyes further afield the savings are vast if a boat is imported back to Australia we pay the taxes on what the boat is worth when its back here (worn out) not on what we paid for it a few years earlier
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Old 18-06-2013, 04:34   #156
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

Absolutely agree with you, and I have dealt with this in other posts.

I run a company that exports high cost products manufactured in Australia (nothing to do with the marine industry) all over the world and we are really up against it all things considered.

I really dont know how Seawind manages to sell product overseas. All I can say is that those owners overseas must really, really, like Seawind boats.

The problem I have is that the comments such as the OP made need to be put in geographic context. The vast majority of Seawinds are purchased in Australia, and in Australia they are not that much more expensive than similar boats. The post you refer to was to correct that assertion that Seawinds are much more expensive IN AUSTRALIA and nothing more.

So I am a little tired of people telling me here that Seawinds are too expensive and they would not buy one, but they go out and buy an older boat that is nowhere near as good on a false premise. For myself I find Seawinds cramped and I want a larger boat, but I also recognise I have to pay more for it for equivalent quality.

If someone (in australia) likes a seawind in my view there is no reason why they should not buy it as at the end of the day they are not that much more expensive than the equivalent and tend to hold their value.

That is to say people (in Australia) should not buy a Seawind because of some myth that they are too expensive.
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Old 18-06-2013, 04:36   #157
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

YOU GOT IT!
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Old 18-06-2013, 04:50   #158
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

Allan

This is a subject for another thread, but I am not sure the savings are that vast.

I guess I am in the minority in that I am a finance guy with and MBA and I have spreadsheeted these things, but what everybody seems to forget is depreciation and running costs and buying a boat and sailing it around the world has this in spades.

I have not seen any real difinitive studies on this but my own analysis reveals that your model makes financial sense but not as much as you may think.

Just my 2c on a completely unrelated subject.
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Old 18-06-2013, 05:11   #159
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Absolutely agree with you, and I have dealt with this in other posts.

I run a company that exports high cost products manufactured in Australia (nothing to do with the marine industry) all over the world and we are really up against it all things considered.

I really dont know how Seawind manages to sell product overseas. All I can say is that those owners overseas must really, really, like Seawind boats.

The problem I have is that the comments such as the OP made need to be put in geographic context. The vast majority of Seawinds are purchased in Australia, and in Australia they are not that much more expensive than similar boats. The post you refer to was to correct that assertion that Seawinds are much more expensive IN AUSTRALIA and nothing more.

So I am a little tired of people telling me here that Seawinds are too expensive and they would not buy one, but they go out and buy an older boat that is nowhere near as good on a false premise. For myself I find Seawinds cramped and I want a larger boat, but I also recognise I have to pay more for it for equivalent quality.

If someone (in australia) likes a seawind in my view there is no reason why they should not buy it as at the end of the day they are not that much more expensive than the equivalent and tend to hold their value.

That is to say people (in Australia) should not buy a Seawind because of some myth that they are too expensive.
From all the good comments and idea. This one is very logical. And consider the auss dollar drop so much lately...

Thanks all..

Gpolar
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Old 18-06-2013, 05:18   #160
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
The problem I have is that the comments such as the OP made need to be put in geographic context. The vast majority of Seawinds are purchased in Australia, and in Australia they are not that much more expensive than similar boats.
Yep, every boat you can think of will be up to 50% cheaper elsewhere in the world. If you compare a 25 yr old 34ft Farrier tri (~100k), a Baba30 (70k) in Aus to US it will be ~half price, the whole market is higher here than elsewhere, not just Seawinds.
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Old 18-06-2013, 08:30   #161
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
Allan

This is a subject for another thread, but I am not sure the savings are that vast.

I guess I am in the minority in that I am a finance guy with and MBA and I have spreadsheeted these things, but what everybody seems to forget is depreciation and running costs and buying a boat and sailing it around the world has this in spades.

I have not seen any real difinitive studies on this but my own analysis reveals that your model makes financial sense but not as much as you may think.

Just my 2c on a completely unrelated subject.
Never buy a boat to make money, there's an old adage and i quote 'if it floats f... or flies' RENT IT don't buy it, all we have done is lessen the exposure somewhat by buying smart.... Cheers Frank.
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Old 18-06-2013, 08:36   #162
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

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Pretty sure I saw Cool Runnings still on the market a couple of weeks back. They can't seem to give that boat away.
I can attest to the fact that they aren't willing to give it away just yet. I made what I thought was a low but reasonable offer but it wasn't a price they would accept. It has been on the market for a long time so I assume they are just going to wait it out for the "right" guy to walk up.
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Old 18-06-2013, 10:49   #163
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Never buy a boat to make money, there's an old adage and i quote 'if it floats f... or flies' RENT IT don't buy it, all we have done is lessen the exposure somewhat by buying smart.... Cheers Frank.
Both Seawinds I've owned I've sold for about 10-15% above what I had in them. Not a great profit but a sign that an older Seawind does hold its value. How does the value of the Lagoons compare to other cats. Maybe the same as Leopards and FP's but possibly lower than Catanas, Privilege Dolphins etc?
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Old 18-06-2013, 16:30   #164
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Both Seawinds I've owned I've sold for about 10-15% above what I had in them. Not a great profit but a sign that an older Seawind does hold its value. How does the value of the Lagoons compare to other cats. Maybe the same as Leopards and FP's but possibly lower than Catanas, Privilege Dolphins etc?
Thats why one wold buy them 2hand after they have taken the largest depreciation hit as Frank has done.
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Old 18-06-2013, 22:37   #165
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Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon

Been a boat/yacht/shipbuider for many years in Australia, i gotta a say there's farr better and surer ways to make money for energy expended.

Making a margin on buying and re-selling a boat is possible of course it all depends on the market at both times you enter it. A vast majority of boat owners will attest the happiest days of ownership were the day before and day after the ownership.

You can make a 10% profit on a wheelbarrow but it doesn't prove anything other than your luck/prowess as a salesman.

As Downunder points out the first owner takes the hit (financially) simply because he wants a new boat, we could never afford to do such a thing, we never went into this to make money just to extend our life doing what we want and travelling the world in the comfort we want. Don't care much about what others see our life, boat etc as.

When we anchor in company we usually share the anchorage with between mono's cat's and motor cruisers, the people on board are all the same, either friendly and outgoing or wishing to be alone. We join in with those that want to and other than friendly jibing no one gives a rats-arse what boat you float...

That stuff is only in these Forums and usually proffered by people without a boat or have a boat and don't use it.

I came into this Forum's topic to show what you get in a larger Lagoon for your money IF you are prepared to do it, not just sit Googling looking for supportive argument but actually spending your hard earned and DOING IT.

Advertised prices and reality are worlds apart unless the seller has a plan, that could be to sell quick hence cheap, to maybe sell if someone comes along prepared to pay the inflated advertised price not really caring how long that takes OR the price is inflated to handle the offers, boat's it seems tend to attract 'offers'.

Many people read an advertisement for a vessel and the first thing they turn to their partner and say is 'wonder if he'll take "x" dollars for it? WHY because the price is always PRESUMED to be inflated.

Some then refuse to enter the market preferring to 'build their own', they quickly find out why it's so hard to make money building boats, it's a time consuming finicky and costly exercise.

So back to the OP's question without the silly jibing some have done on this thread.
Re: Why. Used Seawind is so much Higher Price than Lagoon
The answer is simple for Australian built unit's. BECAUSE it's built in Australia where wages are extreme and most things are imported (it's an island still).

That's my opinion nothing more.

Cheers Frank.
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