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Old 11-06-2008, 18:49   #1
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Why so many unnecessary cabins and heads?

I'm curious to know why you can only get most (if not all?) cats in 3 or 4 cabin configurations? Besides charter, the rest are seemingly built for cruising couples. What use does an older retired couple have for that many cabins where the should be a need for a workshop space and possibly some other type space instead?

I have 12 years till I retire and would like a Lagoon 42 or whatever other hybrid or better that might be available used then. But I will most likely be single and need ONE cabin to sleep in. Not three. This means I will have to find a boat I like and then pay a fortune more to gut and redesign 2 to 3 cabins into something useful.

Why do I appear to be the only person on the planet this applies to?
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Old 11-06-2008, 18:59   #2
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Originally Posted by Madwand View Post
Why do I appear to be the only person on the planet this applies to?
You're not, MW. But when you try to re-sell it after you've stripped it to a single cabin, you'll feel like you are.

I knew of a Voyage 38 for sale in the USVI last year that was primo. The owner had it sold, he thought, and the buyer even had paid for the survey, but he ended up rejecting the vessel because he, " . . . didn't know it only had two cabins." You are more likely to find that catamaran-buyers are interested in the vessels because they have those third and fourth cabins and second heads.

If you truly intend to never sell the vessel, then make it right for you and don't worry about it.

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Old 11-06-2008, 19:04   #3
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Why do I appear to be the only person on the planet this applies to?
Ahhhh, because you have "mad" in your name?

You can do whatever you want with the "unnecessary" space on your boat. It's your space. Others might not consider it "unnecessary."

When the time comes, suggest you look for a boat not designed principally for charter. Don't get a boat with four little heads and four little beds. Convert one cabin into a workshop and another into an office.

Dave
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Old 11-06-2008, 19:07   #4
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We're a cruising couple on a boat that, in the standard configuration, is 4-cabin/4-head. The original owners, also a cruising couple, had it configured by the factory as a 3-cabin/3-head, with the 4th turned into a pantry/laundry/work room.

We basically use the 3rd cabin as additional storage and the 2nd cabin/head for guests. The two primary heads have electric toilets, but the 3rd is manual. While that head is used by us as a wet room for diving/scuba/water toy storage, if we should ever need the manual toilet due to a fault in the electric system, it is there and provides that nice redundancy for a pretty darn important function.

The reality is that cats have 4 corners and that sort of configuration makes for a simpler design than others. Just because it comes that way, though, doesn't mean you have to use it that way. Don't worry, it is still way too easy to over-load it!

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Old 11-06-2008, 19:30   #5
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We also changed the floor-plan or should I say whats in it, ours was a two cabin, two head. we gutted the forward head of "It's Head" and turned it into a real water-closet where the watermaker now resides. all the thru-hulls were there so it was perfect.. The rear quarter berth was turned into the pantry with the hepl of "Elf" shelfing.. And the Sea Burths are now bookshelves and photo equeptment storage..
Dont worry, you'll use the space, every last bit of it...
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Old 11-06-2008, 19:44   #6
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Ahhhh, because you have "mad" in your name?

You can do whatever you want with the "unnecessary" space on your boat. It's your space. Others might not consider it "unnecessary."

When the time comes, suggest you look for a boat not designed principally for charter. Don't get a boat with four little heads and four little beds. Convert one cabin into a workshop and another into an office.
The thing is, like I said, I don't wanna spend a small fortune rebuilding the boat. But for now, there are very few hybrids or better, such as the Lagoon 42 and there is no compromise on the cabins.

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with the 4th turned into a pantry/laundry/work room.

We basically use the 3rd cabin as additional storage and the 2nd cabin/head for guests. if we should ever need the manual toilet due to a fault in the electric system, it is there and provides that nice redundancy for a pretty darn important function.

Don't worry, it is still way too easy to over-load it!
So you want what I want, you just had to buy the lousy choice that was available to achieve it. My point is there is a market for these boats with less beds, but the builders don't care. I'm not opposed to multiple toilets for the reasons you give, but 4 toilets is just stupid.

Seems to me a boat with one cabin and some counters, cabinets and shelves will not be as overloaded as one with 3-4 loaded down cabins.

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You're not, MW. But when you try to re-sell it after you've stripped it to a single cabin, you'll feel like you are.

You are more likely to find that catamaran-buyers are interested in the vessels because they have those third and fourth cabins and second heads.
WHY? And it doesn't matter, there are thousands for those people to choose from.

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We also changed the floor-plan or should I say whats in it, ours was a two cabin, two head. we gutted the forward head of "It's Head" and turned it into a real water-closet where the watermaker now resides. all the thru-hulls were there so it was perfect.. The rear quarter berth was turned into the pantry with the hepl of "Elf" shelfing.. And the Sea Burths are now bookshelves and photo equeptment storage..
Dont worry, you'll use the space, every last bit of it...
You lucked out and started out with only 2 of each. Right now, the boat I want can only be purchased with as few as 3 each. I like the owner's suite in one pontoon, but would prefer the other pontoon just be empty.
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Old 11-06-2008, 20:04   #7
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Most of the aft cabins I have seen have a couple of cubbys and a deck over an engine. If there were no cubbys and no deck then it would be an engine room. Then the owner would put a deck over the engine and some storage. Not too much different to me.

Now the number of heads slays me but I think that is because of the charter market. They may act like their s**t doesn't stink but we know they know because they want a separate toilet so we won't find out what we already know that they know and think we don't.

I can see having three anchors but three heads is too much. 2 + bucket is fine with me.
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Old 12-06-2008, 07:24   #8
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Originally Posted by Madwand View Post
The thing is, like I said, I don't wanna spend a small fortune rebuilding the boat. But for now, there are very few hybrids or better, such as the Lagoon 42 and there is no compromise on the cabins.
It seems you have two choices:

1. Get a "charter" boat and reconfigure it the way you want it.
2. Get a "non-charter" boat and reconfigure it the way you want it.

Choice 2 may be a little cheaper doing the reconfiguration, but maybe more expensive to acquire the boat in the first place.

As for the hybrid desire, what do you hope to accomplish with this specification? All sailboats are hybrids. I betcha - although I don't have ANY data to back it up - that a well designed sailing catamaran with conventional auxiliary diesel engines and a nice array of solar panels and wind gens - can be at least as "hybrid" overall as one of the currently marketed mass production hybrids.

Dave
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Old 12-06-2008, 07:36   #9
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"My point is there is a market for these boats with less beds, but the builders don't care."

So buy a new one and have it configured the way you want.
Builders don't build boats to please the second or third or fourth owner, they build them for the people that want a new boat...and they configure them the way most purchasers want them which evidently is with 3 or four cabins/heads.
If you can't afford - or just choose not to layout the big bucks - for a new one, ya gotta take what's available and modify it to your desired layout.
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Old 12-06-2008, 07:57   #10
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Madwand, Taojones is correct - and the proof that most people who buy cats are interested in mulitple staterooms/heads is in the fact that the manufacturers all build them that way. And why would a single stateroom/head make a difference on the resale market? Precisely because there are exponentially more people interested in buying a cat with more than one stateroom/head.

You could, of course, easily achieve your dream boat by custom ordering one that no manufacturer to date has seen a market for (or at least, one that would justify the cost of tooling and promoting a separate model). If, on the other hand, you are in the market for a used boat, then you will be forced to modify it. Full stop.

As others have pointed out, however, its not all bad. YOU TOO will have a large number of boats to choose from (although your current interest in essentially one model does limit you significantly). You should, therefore, be in a better position to find one at a price, in the condition and with the inventory that suits your needs.

Do staterooms add weight over offices, workshops, storage compartments as you allege? I doubt it - they are likely lighter. On the other hand, most staterooms could be readily (and likely fairly inexpensively) modified to suit your needs. Except for the office (which you may wish to have appear professionally finished), the rest could be DIY project by anyone with even a modest level of skill.

I suppose that there is an analogy in the housing market. Yes, like yourself, there are no doubt people who live alone, expect no overvite guests and therefore would prefer a single 'person' house with only one bedroom and washroom. Apart from some smaller condos, how easy do you think it would be to find one? Does it anger you that no one is currently building such homes (so that in future you could save money buying one used over a custom home)? And if you end up building or modifying either a house or cat to such specifications, what do you think will happen to the resale value?

Brad
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:26   #11
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Most (even "owner") catamarans are destined for charter. Non charter layouts such as the PDQ 44 and African Cat have great layouts for an owner, but because they are aimed only at owners sell far fewer boats and become much more costly to build. And then there's space considerations as well, you don't want weight at the ends, the location is typically narrower due to the hulls, so births and heads make sense rather than storage or nav station, etc. Even if you do decide you don't want that aft birth and would prefer storage, or an office, etc it's difficult simply to adapt that space to something else as it adds weight in the wrong location. Births and heads both can use long narrow spaces very well. Last, people with kids love the idea of having a room for guests, a room for the parents and then a room for the kids and for privacy you'd want them to be as far apart as possible for privacy which again puts the cabins in the ends. But I really don't think anyone needs 4 heads in a boat. 2 heads, fine, but four is a little much.
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Old 12-06-2008, 13:25   #12
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I like the owner's suite in one pontoon, but would prefer the other pontoon just be empty.

HULL.....HULL....HULL.... or ama in a tri.
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Old 12-06-2008, 15:24   #13
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Seems to me that there must be "conversion" companies out there that perform this need. Maybe a young marine architect could make some good bucks doing this kind of work. People on cats are very interested in personalizing their space and would certainly entertain the idea of having a pro do an remodel of an existing space. Since most all cats are laid out pretty much the same, it would be fairly simple to come up with a few interior modifications which would just need to be "tweaked" for each model.
It could be named "Trick Your Cat" (kinda like Trick your Truck-get it?). I think I am going to get a .com on that today.
If anybody starts a business on my plan, I want royalties! If anyone wants a silent (broke but owns the .com) partner, just let me know.
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Old 12-06-2008, 18:23   #14
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The house analogy is not accurate. I actually am in the process of buying a house right now and as you said, there are no one bedroom houses for sale, nor even any 2 bedrooms. So I am having to buy a 3 bedroom house, which will cost more and I don't need, but will provide me with more storage space. But I don't have to worry about my waterline. Even if I had found a one bedroom house, I could add extra storage outside. Can't do that on a boat. And I'm not worried about resale value, I plan on dying on the boat.

The difference is the house I'm buying on an acre of land only costs $125,000. For me to buy the boat I really want would cost me over half a million. That's ridiculous. I'd do it if I was stinking rich, but I'm not. I'll be able to buy a $200,000 boat, but I dread the idea of rebuilding a hull.

Someone else mentined that all sailboats are hybrids, That's not correct, only a couple (2 I think) make all electric versions that regenerate with their props. You may have a generator for emergencies, but that would be the same as the generator I keep at home for emergencies. I don't have to worry what the 2 gallon tank costs to fill and may never use it. I'm far from "green" but I want a self sufficient boat with as little need for docking as possible.

African Cats may be what I need, they have a 2 or 3 cabin layout and weigh half as much as a Lagoon 42 electric and have a much higher electric efficiency.

As far as me adding extra weight, I don't think so. I think removing a California King and head from a hull and replacing it with a workbench and some cabinets (for the tools and parts you MUST carry anyway) would save weight.

So my question is, what do people who live on cats do about the lack of a place to WORK? You need a workshop on a boat unless you just call a pro everytime anything needs to be tinkered with. All you people who have the four corners of your hulls jammed up with beds no one is sleeping in, where do you do repair work? Where is your workbench? Where do you keep your spare parts?

Anyway, I wasn't complaining that these companies aren't building a boat specifically for me, I was asking way all the middle aged "cruising couples" who are buying cats need four bedrooms for 2 people to sleep with the occasional guests who can sleep on a sette or trampoline.
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Old 12-06-2008, 18:50   #15
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HarryProa

Why not consider a Harryproa design ? Generally (2) cabins with (2) heads in the windward hull and NOTHING except mast post in the leeward hull. 40+ feet of "engine" room or whatever. Divide that up however you like.

Original concept is to keep all the mechanicals in the leeward hull and sleep/eat in the windward. Keeps noise, smell, etc. away from crew areas.

Doesn't mean the design is stagnant as a "charter" version is in development for the obligatory 4 cabin 4 head scenario. Have to work with design & product demands, but the original concept remains the core arrangement.

JT
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