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Old 18-06-2008, 14:57   #76
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Fullafrisky, I disagree with you concerning the size of new sailboats (although I would tend to think that increasing fuel costs will create increased demand for smaller and more efficient new power boats).

For a number of years now, the entry market for sailboats has moved away from new but small vessels to used but larger ones. Since the cost of fuel is such a small proportion of the operating cost for most sailboats, the rising price of fuel has had virtually no negative impact on the demand for used sailboats (in fact, it may eventually increase demand as some switch from power to sail).

Yes, rising oil prices (and the weakening dollar) have driven up the price of new sailboats; on the other hand, those who are least effected by the economic downturn and who are in the best situation economically will still likely be more interested in larger, rather than smaller vessels. I , for one, don't expect to see a whole slew of new, small (lets say under 32 foot) sailboats. The price for these, due to the significant increases in the cost of resin, dacron, aluminum etc. will be outside of the reach of most buyers; as a result, most will continue to look in large numbers at the used market.

Is this good for the economy? Likely not. But the repair/refitting of used sailboats is much more energy efficient than merely scrapping the old ones. Put another way, we have become invovled in re-using and re-cycling products that are already very energy efficient to use.

Brad
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Old 18-06-2008, 15:32   #77
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
When this happens and that is possible we start sailing as usual until we get to shore and then we repair.
It has happened to me with 2 diesels on board
How do 2 diesels fail? What was the weakest link? Fuel? EFI (computer failure)? Clogged water intake?

Had I been on the open ocean, I would have stripped one to fix the other.
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Old 18-06-2008, 15:39   #78
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By the way
ever tried to hand start a diesel ?

No way

greetings
You know they still make hand start diesels, Lister has them. But let's consider why you need to hand start in the first place. I presume failed starter (or perhaps dead battery)? If I was on the open ocean, I'd carry as many rebuilt kits (& the tools to complete the task) for as many things as possible.
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Old 18-06-2008, 15:46   #79
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Rick, you were "lucky"!

When a friend's boat was struck, the path was through the engine block and shaft. It turned his engine oil to tar! What a mess that was to clean out!
Hello Hud3,

I've heard about seacocks (through-hull's) being blownout by lightning. I guess it would be prudent to have some large wooden pegs, packing & a hammer to plug the through-hull. Having said that, you'd need very quick access to the through-hull as a lot of water would be coming in very quickly.
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Old 18-06-2008, 16:47   #80
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Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
Rick, you were "lucky"!

When a friend's boat was struck, the path was through the engine block and shaft. It turned his engine oil to tar! What a mess that was to clean out!
Although we were grateful we didn't get zapped, I didn't feel so "Lucky" that day. The list of destroyed equipment grew over the following couple of weeks.

From that day forward I've adopted the K.I.S.S. principal. (with the notable exception of a very nice Standard Horizon class D marine DSC VHF with remote microphone station.... after all, a man doesn't live by bread alone )
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Old 18-06-2008, 16:55   #81
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Southern Star,
You make very good points and may be correct with your assumptions. Your argument makes sense and is a valid counter opinion.
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Old 18-06-2008, 17:19   #82
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Originally Posted by exfishnz View Post
You know they still make hand start diesels, Lister has them. But let's consider why you need to hand start in the first place. I presume failed starter (or perhaps dead battery)? If I was on the open ocean, I'd carry as many rebuilt kits (& the tools to complete the task) for as many things as possible.
Or a complete engine, gearbox, drive shaft and propellor. Most cats carry all these spares as standard, along with a complete duplicate steering system.
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Old 18-06-2008, 19:05   #83
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Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post

Lets all be on the lookout for Madwand to return with a different name.
You know, I haven't said anything in a week because I had had enough of your flame-baiting and didn't want to be chewed out again for daring to have an opinion. This comment, in addition to your enfant prevocateur reference, were both totally unneccessary. What is your problem? Ever since I started this thread you've been making smartass comments and then you started the flame-baiting. Why don't you stop now?

For the others telling me to calm down and accusing me of this and that, I have done nothing here but respond to these same comments by this one person who, for some reason, seems determined to start trouble. I'm sorry if no one else sees it.

I shall not be returning as some other name, I just will no longer feel free to use this forum without harassment. Thanks a lot.
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Old 18-06-2008, 19:31   #84
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EXFISHNZ: You've overstated the case. I don't believe that any manufacturer would sell a vessel with a critical single point of failure. If nothing else, the DC panel will allow access to the battery buss, with switch selectable charging sources, and all a sailboat needs is nav and a radio. And ELT's are completely independant of other systems. Computer failure is not a dead end either. A ten-year-old can plug a new drive into a usb port, and every piece of software on board including the operating system can be loaded from a thumb drive, thru another usb port. That, of course does not mean that a sixty-year-old could do the same thing, but.....
HOWEVER, I do agree that there is a potential hazard in being caught out with something you can't fix, and some of the really techie stuff is out of MY ken. So I don't buy it. Can't afford it anyway.

When one of my engines goes south, I pull it out, sit it on my lap, and swap in parts from the dinghy motor. They are all outboards!
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Old 18-06-2008, 20:27   #85
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What do you carry and where do you keep it? Where do you work on that big ole greasy part you had to take off your engine?
Madwand - I won't apologize for the rest of the forum but I will apologize for any rudeness I displayed.

Welcome aboard the forum and into the "fray." You can see it's a lively place.

Let me state for the record there is nothing wrong with wanting a boat laid out the way you want it. As to why the manufacturers don't make it the way you want, well, that's already flogged to death.

The specific question above didn't get asnwered properly. I have three toolboxes on board. One is the size of a fishing tackle box. It has pliers, screwdrivers, a hammer, a couple of different drift punches, adjustable spanners, a couple of files, several combo open end wrenches, wire cutters. I also have a couple of ratchets and sockets only for the sizes I know I need. I don't cary "all the tools" god created and I am a licensed and certified mechanic who loves tools.

The top part that looks like where the tackle would go contains nuts, bolts, screws, washers of common sizes. I buy bolts of one length and cut them down if required. Thread a nut on first, cut with a hacksaw and removing the nut cleans the burr off. I love fibrelock nuts.

The second box is the size of a lunch box maybe. It contains a multi-meter, wire strippers, solder, soldering iron, lugs and connectors, fuses, a couple of spare inline fuse holders and the odds and ends of wire.

The third box is new - My partner bought it. It is one of those cheap, chinese 86-piece "toolkits" - Bless his heart it's a piece of crap. The pliers are rusting already. Every changeable bit screwdriver in this thing is broken. It has crap sockets and wrenches and at some point I am going to figure out how to gracefully pitch it over board.

These go under the port bunk along with spares that includes, engine filters, impellers, pulley belt, wire, fuel hose, a bag of shackles and pulleys etc. etc.

We do a lot of repairs sitting in the cockpit.

This is another advantage of the starter boat - learning what works, what doesn't, what to bring what to dump. I'd like to have a small (4-inch)vise/anvil combo that I can temporarily mount when I need it with a c-clamp or something. Haven't work that it out yet.

As for tools? Get the best quality you can. My tools are snap on where possible. They absolutely fit the best. My dad gave me a set of combo wrenches when I graduated A&P school, 27 years ago. They are still like new. I also have a lot of craftsman - pliers, adjustable pliers, needle nose and duckbill.

It is possible to be over-tooled and tools are very heavy.
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Old 18-06-2008, 21:33   #86
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EXFISHNZ: You've overstated the case.
Really???

These systems have a distribution box that regulates & channels all the electricity. When any device requires more power (than what is already available in the batts) then the cpu (with its software in an eprom module) on a circuit board in the distribution box will start the generator for extra power. When the batts are low, the cpu will allow the batts charge controller to accept power from other sources such as solar/wind/shore. This is the single point of failure.

The DC panel is only for house use, not propulsion. The power for propulsion comes straight from the distribution box (like everything else).

As for being a 12/24v DC hacker & trying to re-route these systems, don't forget that they are connected via a network bus. It's one thing to run AWG wire around the place, but if any device requires data from the network bus, then it still won't work.

There may well be switches to bypass the distribution box in an emergency for power from the batts to the radio's. But without the distribution box, you're going to have some major issues.
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Old 18-06-2008, 21:49   #87
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Madwand - I won't apologize for the rest of the forum but I will apologize for any rudeness I displayed.
Hello Madwand,

This is only the internet, not the local pub, don't let people's posts get to you. If you don't like someone, then just ignore their posts (or give 'em hell back ).
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Old 19-06-2008, 09:00   #88
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On a review of this thread, all of the initial postings were efforts at providing Madwand with reasons for the lack of production cruising cats that fit his criteria and legitimate suggestions for building/modifying existing ones to suit his expressed wishes. Most of our response were shrugged off by Magwand - eg. when I suggested that because of the lack of demand, he would also have a hard time finding a single bedroom house, he responded "so, a house is not a boat and if I want more storage I can leave a bed out of a bedroom or put it outside". Sandy suggested that Madwand might be better getting some experience sailing a cat before determining what his actual needs were in such a boat - and sounded the alarm about the effects of the amount of weight in tools etc. that Madwand apparently wanted to carry. Sound advice. It was Madwand, in his next post on June 12, at 2:43, that started making things personal and obiviously sarcastic. Frankly, good riddance if he now thinks that he has to pick up his chips and go home. As the old saying goes, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Brad
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Old 19-06-2008, 09:10   #89
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Restraint, tolerance, and maturity

Hi, folks.

I've sent out PMs asking a couple of members to exercise a bit of restraint in this thread, and not let things get into a negative spiral. Please read the Forum's Community Rules, if you haven't already done so. We like to keep things level and friendly around here.

We seem to have got off on the wrong foot in this thread, for whatever reason. I'd appreciate it if EVERYONE would just wipe the slate clean, start over, and try being civil to each other.

We really do get a lot more accomplished that way!

Thanks,

Hud

p.s. thanks, Dan, for your post (#85).
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Old 19-06-2008, 09:35   #90
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I would like to appologize to anyone incensed by my sense of humor, or to anyone who has taken my responses as a personal attack. This is not a flamewar forum, and is characterized by kindness and consideration towards different points of view.
Sincerely, Sandy "Profundus Maximus" Daugherty

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