Why so many unnecessary cabins and heads?

[44'cruisingcat]

Most production boats are built to suit the charter market. Loads of beds to allow charterers to split the costs between more people. They dont have to maintain the boat, most wont be on it for more than a month, so they don't require a workshop or the like.

You'll need to look somewhere other than French production boats to find what you want.

[sandy daugherty]

Its a boat, Madwand, not a garage. you do the work you need to do (and only what you need to do) in the space you have, and put everything away when its time to use the space for something different. You don't need a lot of space for tools because you don't carry a lot of tools. Everything on board has several uses. You don't carry a set of box end wrenches and a set of open end wrenches an a set of something else: you carry what you can't live without, and I'm not talking about emotional attachments; I'm talking about just the right tools to fix a winch, overhaul a valve on the watermaker, etc. I don't even carry a vise. I don't carry a printer. On a boat I can live indefinately and quite comfortably with less than a seabag full of clothing, safety gear, personal items and books while on a boat, but my 1500 square foot bachelor's cave with a fixed address is bulging at the seams with 'nothing but necessities'. If you need a drill press, table saw and lathe in your workshop you might want to investigate the availability of small bulk carriers for your retirement!

[sandy daugherty]

Besides, if you're going to retire in 12 years, you should be out on a smaller cat sailing your butt off, learning what really matters to you. Get caught out in a storm. Do all the maintenance your self, from changing the bulb in your masthead light to painting the bottom of the keels. I discovered, after owning three cruising cats and one racing cat, that I do not want to have to manage a 42 footer by myself. Just getting a 36 in and out of a slip is a gut-buster. I've been a hero, and I didn't like it. Going 'round alone' has no charms for me.

[Robertcateran]

Originally Posted by jjtctaylor

Why not consider a Harryproa design ? Generally (2) cabins with (2) heads in the windward hull and NOTHING except mast post in the leeward hull. 40+ feet of "engine" room or whatever. Divide that up however you like.

Original concept is to keep all the mechanicals in the leeward hull and sleep/eat in the windward. Keeps noise, smell, etc. away from crew areas.

Doesn't mean the design is stagnant as a "charter" version is in development for the obligatory 4 cabin 4 head scenario. Have to work with design & product demands, but the original concept remains the core arrangement.

JT

And sails like the powers of, and can get the hulls built for 2/3 or less the cost of a cat with less hobbyhorsing in chop
Robert

[Madwand]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

Besides, if you're going to retire in 12 years, you should be out on a smaller cat sailing your butt off, learning what really matters to you.

So the fact that I am researching this 12 years in advance leads you to think that you should lecture me on being prepared. Does that make any sense?

You didn't mention the tools in your seabag.

I didn't need sarcastic answers since I don't think I asked a stupid question. I didn't suggest I needed a drill press, lathe or table saw on a boat. But I'm not stupid enough to believe that you can maintain a boat with a multitool in your pocket either.

So now that I've had my unnecessary dose of smartass for the day, my question still stands. What do you carry and where do you keep it? Where do you work on that big ole greasy part you had to take off your engine?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Madwand

Where do you work on that big ole greasy part you had to take off your engine?

Right on the cabin sole in front of the thing it came off of, or
On the saloon table, covered, of course, or
On the cockpit floor, covered of course.

Some have taken little clamp on vises. They can be handy.

One of the threads a while back was asking what tools do you have to have. If half of them were put on a boat then there would not be any room for beer!

Hard choices this boat stuff.

[Madwand]

So it sounds like the answer is buy whatever boat you want, don't bring anything, live like there is no tomorrow, and hope nothing breaks.

[isbolick]

Originally Posted by Madwand

So the fact that I am researching this 12 years in advance leads you to think that you should lecture me on being prepared. Does that make any sense?

You didn't mention the tools in your seabag.

I didn't need sarcastic answers since I don't think I asked a stupid question. I didn't suggest I needed a drill press, lathe or table saw on a boat. But I'm not stupid enough to believe that you can maintain a boat with a multitool in your pocket either.

So now that I've had my unnecessary dose of smartass for the day, my question still stands. What do you carry and where do you keep it? Where do you work on that big ole greasy part you had to take off your engine?

Yes, any doses of smartass delivered to you are patently unnecessary.

[sandy daugherty]

My boat toolboxes total about 45 pounds, and should be pared down. I have enough tools and spares to completely overhaul my engines (but they are outboards), repair any of my standing and running rigging, replace the joker valve in the head, troubleshoot and repair most of my electronics and electrical system, service my watermaker, overhaul winches, repair the air conditioning and refrigeration, keep the stove and oven safe and working, and fix any other system on the boat. I also have a box of fiberglass, tapes, resin and hardner, pumps, gloves and mixing cups sufficient for a modest repair, and I know how to do all the above because I've had a series of progressively larger boats since I started thinking about retirement. I have a boat-car full of more stuff, and when I'm just daysailing or overnighting, I carry a a couple of my boxes back to the car. Eighteen years ago I had a garage full of tools and needed more. I still would like to have the use of a full shop, so long as it was someone else's. My money is in boats now. My current dictum is don't buy any single use item, don't buy crap, and pay for stainless when I can find it. On-boar power tools are limited to 1/2" drill, hex drive screwdriver, jig saw, Fein tool, and rotozip. There are some sanders in the car, and a small band saw, scroll saw, drill press, and more power tools back at the cave, along with a couple large storage boxes full of glass cloth, painting stuff, wiring stuff, and plumbing stuff. None of that goes aboard. Most of it goes into storage when I cruise.
The tool boxes have homes midships, in lockers where they won't be tossed around in waves. I have three workbenches: on the dinette over plastice trash bags, on the generator sound box, and on the nav table. Larger projects move out to the 'patio', and even larger projects move out to the beach. The patio is a nice place to work because cleanup can be acomplished with a bucket of seawater and some Lemon Joy.

I'm going to bet that more seasoned cruisers make do with a lot fewer tools.

Finally; I need a total of eight tools to everything I need to do with my engines. They live in a small plastic shoebox, with most of my engine spares. A friend has all of his 20hp diesel and outdrive tools in a slightly longer bag, and he has changed out the outdrive gasket(?) dried out on a beach.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

Finally; I need a total of eight tools to everything I need to do with my engines.
.

EIGHT!!

Man, I wold like to do that with my Honda 15. But then there is the feeler guage added in.

Good on you!

[sandy daugherty]

"So it sounds like the answer is buy whatever boat you want, don't bring anything, live like there is no tomorrow, and hope nothing breaks."
If you read more carefully, you will see that most of us buy what we can afford, fix what breaks ourselves, without ruining the experience by dragging around useless extra weight, and live contentedly knowing we can deal with most things and ask for help with the rest. But we never ever sail beyond our means to cope. And we learn by doing, not by dreaming.

[sandy daugherty]

Yamaha uses only four sizes of bolts in their high-thrust 8s, and no special tools. But I forgot to count the feeler gage: its also a pack of playing cards!

[44'cruisingcat]

Why not calibrate your fingernails with a nail file and micrometer - save carrying feeler guages!

[TaoJones]

Madwand, I don't know if you're thinking of a specific make and model of catamaran, but here's a link to a Seawind 1000 that its owner had modified to meet his needs. It is just he and his wife, and the 10-meter Seawind has outboards in wells on the bridgedeck, so modifying the four corners was a different proposition than it would be in a cat with, as Therapy said, two engine rooms, essentially, in the aft hulls.

Here's the link for the Katie Kat site: Welcome to Siudzinski KatieKat

And here's the link that will take you to the page that deals with the specific mods they ordered: KatieKat Pre-Cruise

If you have the time, read through as much of the site as you find interesting. It's a goldmine for information on this specific make of cat.

TaoJones

[Maren]

Originally Posted by Madwand

I'm curious to know why you can only get most (if not all?) cats in 3 or 4 cabin configurations? Besides charter, the rest are seemingly built for cruising couples.

I really think the analogy of a house works pretty well.

If you buy a house, unless it’s semi-custom or custom, you get what you get. That’s because the designers draw what the builders want to build. And the builders are building for a couple of markets – in this case it's owner and charter.

Regarding your reasonable question of with so many cruising couples, why not design for that particular market? To a large part I think this has to do with marketing and creating perceived needs. People are convinced they need a spare bedroom for guests and you don’t want them using your bathroom so you need another head, preferably en suite. And then you want your own space – it’s a work room; No, it’s an office; No, a gymnasium; No, it’s a storage spot; No, a shack. (For all you old school rappers out there, let me know if you can tell DJ Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince song I referenced).

Anyway, why should the builder change the layout? For the most part, the boats all need to have interior bulkheads and I presume you don’t want a hull to be completely open for use as fencing piste, target range or shuffle board area.

I'm not sure that helps but it was fun for me.