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Old 27-10-2015, 12:54   #16
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Re: Why so many heads?

Of course all of us should keep our minds open to the flexibility gained if we choose to install even more heads. For example, how better to say "I love you" than to make it easy for the ladies to pee from the transom?

Dave
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Old 27-10-2015, 14:38   #17
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Re: Why so many heads?

[QUOTE=MoxieGirl;1946935]Please take this post partly tongue-in-cheek as it's intended, but also partly seriously too.

WHY SO MANY HEADS?

MoxieGirl. Nicely written!
Having been around multihulls for a while, this is a lot more important in the owners choice of model than just the number of heads.

It is also for me, the most disappointing aspect of multis. I got started in racing and imagined lots of cruiser racer cats as the future. Instead we have huge numbers of cats which make great condo's on the water at a price to match, which no one would consider racing.

Weight defines the character of a catamaran.

The following may help those who are considering the appropriate choice as first time yacht owners.

As designer, the twin hulls can have accommodation in just two slim hulls or huge space and carrying capacity. There is a place for both extremes and a whole range between. We have examples across the board. One of the problems facing the less experienced is that all promise performance and ease of handling. I also appreciate that the first time owner often underestimates the importance of performance in their cruising ambitions. As a custom cat designer, many of my clients over the years have been second time round owners, disappointed with the sailing speed of their first model. It is not only the actual speed but also that wonderful feeling of a light weight, lively, responsive sailing vessel driven by the wind.

To give an example of the range – A Suncat 40, owner built and half way round the World, was launched after new anti-foul in NZ. Fully loaded ready for the next leg she weighed in at 5.5 tonnes. Several of this model have completed the circumnavigation and regularly achieve 200 mile days. Finding true weight figures may not be easy, but I know of a number of production cats of similar size quoted at 12 – 15 tonnes. Most long distance cruisers are couples with occasional guests!!!.

These same models will then sport a tall rig, in an attempt to regain the performance. First problem is that the weight of the rig will go up and can be double. The tall rig does not give back the wonderful feeling of light weight performance from a modest rig.

I have just spent a couple of days with our friends Don and Marilyn on their own built charter cat Cool Change. She sails at about 14.5 tonnes – after 11 years and 52,000 sea miles, the survey just completed lists almost all items as “as new”. This includes the twin freestanding wing masts. The light weight also has a lot to do with the way in which the structure and fit out is designed. This is something which is harder to do in a full molds production situation.

Weight, cost and ease of handling are obviously linked. A recent widely published advert of one of those designed for charter cats, shows a surprising amount of white water from bow wave to stern. A light weight leaves barely a ripple.

My own cruising where I started was on a shoe string budget. Camping style. Water in containers, dry cell batteries for the radio for time signals and a tiny outboard etc. We loved the simplicity of life on board. The starting point is to ask – what is important to me? Camping or all the comforts of home. At that point do remember that KISS is the best way to care free cruising and as we heard, getting multiple systems all working can be a challenge.

Happy Boating,

Derek.
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Old 27-10-2015, 15:48   #18
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Re: Why so many heads?

2Hulls - thank you for the picture. I LOVE it!

Derek, Thanks for the info. If I may, here are my thoughts regarding cats, or perhaps my dream cat. Considering I've yet to set foot on one, I may be talking out my arse, and reality may change my thoughts. Which is fine, I can be flexible.

First off, I think living on a monohull must be like living in a tent that is sometimes on a hill with a 25 degree slope. A catamaran on the other hand, seems a lot more like a small apartment that someone had the foresight to build on level ground.

When the cat starts to look like an expensive, large condominium, I tend to tune out. For me, function and practicality are more important than looks. You wanna design something into my boat that is really pretty, fine, but it better have a damn good practical use as well.

1) I'm 50 and I'm single. If one day I have a partner again, that's fine, but it isn't something I'm actively looking for. So being able to sail single handed is very important. Sure, people have sailed around the world in freaking big cats single handed, but I'm in no race and have no intention of sailing around the Antarctic. I'm thinking compact is good, 30-40 feet range. I also don't want to pay an arm and a leg to moor the thing.

One of the things I'm struggling with is finding a way to compare the space on a cat to the space on a monohull. I've been on mono's, which are deceptively bigger on the inside than they look on the outside. But how does this compare with the living space on a cat? No one seems to measure boats in volume of living space. LOL

2) That said, I don't want to give up being comfortable on my cat. From what I've read about live-aboard cruisers, they spend more time anchored or moored than actually sailing. I want a boat I can live on. This means a comfortable kitchen where I can cook for friends and family that visit. Enough room to seat everyone without stepping over each other, and places for everyone to sleep (including one head & shower in each hull). Plenty of storage, freezer and fridge space, a washer/dryer, water maker.... Comfortable but not posh is my approach.

I like the cats with the galley and living space on the main deck, and bedrooms/heads in the hulls.

3) Being able to handle it on my own means appropriately sized sails. Performance is important yes, I like the idea of being able to get ahead of a storm. I also like the idea of a furling mainsail, although I don't yet have experience with one. Some say they can get tangled, but seem much easier to reef and handle single-handedly than conventional sails.

4) Seaworthiness is of course important. My plan is to go from England, across the Atlantic, through the canal and end up around New Zealand. I doubt I'll cross the big ponds on my own, that's probably pushing things a bit. But there will still be quite a bit of 'me' time on the boat, so I want to know it can stand up to weather and waves.

5) Being warm and comfortable is important to me. If I were to self-build, I'd be interested in exploring lining the hulls with aerogel, an ultralight super-insulator. I think it would be a great way to keep the boat warm in the winter and cool in the summer. I also want some office space where I can work and not feel crowded. I spend silly long hours at the computer, so need a comfortable desk beyond the quite small nav stations I see on most boats.

6) I've seen some cats that have a door coming out of the front centre of the saloon and leading to the bow of the boat. This is genius! If sailing single handed and you have to go forward in a storm, this seems like a safer path than along the edge of the boat.

I think that's my fairly short-list of dreams for my boat.

I do have a crazy idea, not sure if it'll work or not. I grew up on a farm in Iowa where we had electric fences to keep cows and pigs where they belonged. What if you were to run an electric current, like an electric fence that sends a pulse or two every second, through the stanchion around your yacht. It of course wouldn't be on all the time, unless pirates were approaching or you were anchored in a less than friendly area. Then you could turn it on and discourage unwanted boarders. Joshua Slocum spread out carpet tacks on his boat to keep unwanted guests away, same sort of idea - ish.

Although, I think my idea for a self-righting cat is probably a tad more crazy (although, hopefully feasible).

MG
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Old 28-10-2015, 13:00   #19
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Re: Why so many heads?

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
main reason for toilets on cats is to make hull stiffer and add to structural integrity of the boat.

And of course for monohull people to have something to talk about.
Say WHAT! Is that another sales brochure quote?
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Old 28-10-2015, 13:49   #20
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Re: Why so many heads?

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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Of course all of us should keep our minds open to the flexibility gained if we choose to install even more heads. For example, how better to say "I love you" than to make it easy for the ladies to pee from the transom?

Dave
That's a really good idea. You'd be able to vomit over the stern while you sit on the loo. Might need a seat belt to conform with safety regulations.
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Old 28-10-2015, 15:00   #21
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Re: Why so many heads?

MoxieGirl,

Your ideas make very good sense. You also touch on a number of my concerns and things which can be done without too much cost to improve safety and comfort. Things like insulation are of most importance for live aboard. All my work is foam sandwich which helps a lot but there is still more that can be done. I do like your electric fence lifelines – so easy to do. Here, electric fences are in our paddock and even our dog, once bitten, stays well away.

Style follows function in my world - where so much in boats is following fashion. This is not to say that those charter cats are other than big square boxes, which do little in my view for the RAW (row away) factor. Comfort for me personally is space for each activity, but space for the sake of space is not of great importance with all that space and changing scenery around you on the water.

In the early days we were very concerned for capsize and believed it could be the end of a career. Today and for a long time now, many safety features are all there to be done, but no real interest from owners. I sat, solo, mid Atlantic sans rudder and dagger board. I have capsized solo. We did a capsize test on 36ft. Cat and it did self right. I have also designed survival compartments (one used in anger) and self recovery systems. This background helps to concentrate the mind on what can be done at the design stage. There is heaps still to be done in the cat world.

There have been enough capsizes recently to bring these features back on to the table. A capsized Lagoon surprised me how far down the aft end of the cat was. The typical cat will float with the bridge-deck above WL I believe that every one on board a cat should know whether the cat can sink or not and where she will float. I know of two multis lost because no one on board knew for sure if their boats could sink. I believe every design should consider this factor – no matter how many hulls or for what purpose.

Virtually every boat on the water has space which can have flotation fitted to ensure it floats high enough to provide survival space. It need cost very little. An incident here involved a steel fishing boat where three men drowned and it seems, without enough time for them to get into the liferaft. Then the Whale watching boat in Canada goes down to just the bows above WL.

When looking at the level of flotation in a capsized cat, it is then very easy to arrange a survival compartment. This is where the low reserve buoyancy of a flooded vessel can be exploited to lift one corner. Of course, again, weight is the enemy. One day I would love to hear of a cat, having capsized, been self recovered and sailed home. It is there to be done. We could share ideas on this topic.

Lady Jane 111 is the Suncat I mentioned. Jane needed to make a trip back to Ireland and Jim sailed solo from Sri Lanka through to Eritrea (Red Sea) for that part of the circumnavigation – about 4 years ago.

Own build is not for everyone but I have never known any client regret doing so and there is one huge advantage – the confidence of knowing your boat.

The space comparison in Cu.m. Is simple enough to calculate but never done it. However, the cat also has more usable space in the way it is laid out.

A forward saloon door – is on a Kelsall 46 called Happy Feet.. Not too difficult.

Self righting – ideas are the easy part. Putting to the test is the challenge.

Happy boating,

Derek
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Old 28-10-2015, 15:23   #22
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Re: Why so many heads?

Hi MG,

Firstly, I'm the last one to discourage anyone from heading out cruising, so go for it. The biggest barrier I think people face to actually going cruising is attitude, and it doesn't sound like you'll let that stop you.

However if you want to make your dream a reality, you might be better focused on getting some time on catamarans, before you start trying to design/redesign them. It depends on budget, but the reality is most people are limited to finding the boat that is closest to their needs, rather than building one to match. And even if you were to go the build route, I would highly recommend some serious time living aboard before doing that, so you could find out what was actually important for you, not what you thought would be important, or someone else thought would be important for you. I would also make the same recommendation before doing and major changes on a boat you buy, particularly if it is your first boat - spend some time living with it before making any changes.

Just as an example, you seem very concerned about keeping a catamaran warm, but given your proposed cruising route, for almost all of it heating is a non-issue, particularly as it sounds like you are tending towards cats that are likely to be built with a cored hull and deck. And if you did want to stay somewhere cold, adding a diesel heater is a lot easier and cheaper than adding aerogel, which I think at the moment retails at about $500/sq/ft.

Bottom line from my perspective is that there are lots of cats out there that could get you out cruising. Don't worry too much about finding the perfect one. Find one that you can live comfortably with and can afford, and then go!

Good luck with the project.
Mark.
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Old 28-10-2015, 15:26   #23
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Re: Why so many heads?

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Originally Posted by DerekKelsall View Post
MoxieGirl,

Your ideas make very good sense. You also touch on a number of my concerns and things which can be done without too much cost to improve safety and comfort. Things like insulation are of most importance for live aboard. All my work is foam sandwich which helps a lot but there is still more that can be done. I do like your electric fence lifelines – so easy to do. Here, electric fences are in our paddock and even our dog, once bitten, stays well away.

Style follows function in my world - where so much in boats is following fashion. This is not to say that those charter cats are other than big square boxes, which do little in my view for the RAW (row away) factor. Comfort for me personally is space for each activity, but space for the sake of space is not of great importance with all that space and changing scenery around you on the water.

In the early days we were very concerned for capsize and believed it could be the end of a career. Today and for a long time now, many safety features are all there to be done, but no real interest from owners. I sat, solo, mid Atlantic sans rudder and dagger board. I have capsized solo. We did a capsize test on 36ft. Cat and it did self right. I have also designed survival compartments (one used in anger) and self recovery systems. This background helps to concentrate the mind on what can be done at the design stage. There is heaps still to be done in the cat world.

There have been enough capsizes recently to bring these features back on to the table. A capsized Lagoon surprised me how far down the aft end of the cat was. The typical cat will float with the bridge-deck above WL I believe that every one on board a cat should know whether the cat can sink or not and where she will float. I know of two multis lost because no one on board knew for sure if their boats could sink. I believe every design should consider this factor – no matter how many hulls or for what purpose.

Virtually every boat on the water has space which can have flotation fitted to ensure it floats high enough to provide survival space. It need cost very little. An incident here involved a steel fishing boat where three men drowned and it seems, without enough time for them to get into the liferaft. Then the Whale watching boat in Canada goes down to just the bows above WL.

When looking at the level of flotation in a capsized cat, it is then very easy to arrange a survival compartment. This is where the low reserve buoyancy of a flooded vessel can be exploited to lift one corner. Of course, again, weight is the enemy. One day I would love to hear of a cat, having capsized, been self recovered and sailed home. It is there to be done. We could share ideas on this topic.

Lady Jane 111 is the Suncat I mentioned. Jane needed to make a trip back to Ireland and Jim sailed solo from Sri Lanka through to Eritrea (Red Sea) for that part of the circumnavigation – about 4 years ago.

Own build is not for everyone but I have never known any client regret doing so and there is one huge advantage – the confidence of knowing your boat.

The space comparison in Cu.m. Is simple enough to calculate but never done it. However, the cat also has more usable space in the way it is laid out.

A forward saloon door – is on a Kelsall 46 called Happy Feet.. Not too difficult.

Self righting – ideas are the easy part. Putting to the test is the challenge.

Happy boating,

Derek
Derek that is interesting. When you refer to the steel fishing boat sinking, are you referring to the FV Jubilee with 3 crew, not far out to sea from Christchurch New Zealand around a week ago? That and the BC whale watch boat are at present great mysteries.

Also, and off NZ North Island coast in 1989 was the trimaran Rose Noelle which capsized and the crew (3, I think) survived 119 days inverted until they washed up on Great Barrier Island. At least a capsized multi can possibly serve as a life raft. The skipper of Rose Noelle ( I met) suggested that his inexperienced crew panicked when they were going 11 knots and told him to slow down. He said that slowing down was why they capsized. I can understand that but I've never been in a position to experiment.
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Old 28-10-2015, 16:01   #24
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Re: Why so many heads?

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Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
Hi MG,

Firstly, I'm the last one to discourage anyone from heading out cruising, so go for it. The biggest barrier I think people face to actually going cruising is attitude, and it doesn't sound like you'll let that stop you.

However if you want to make your dream a reality, you might be better focused on getting some time on catamarans, before you start trying to design/redesign them. It depends on budget, but the reality is most people are limited to finding the boat that is closest to their needs, rather than building one to match. And even if you were to go the build route, I would highly recommend some serious time living aboard before doing that, so you could find out what was actually important for you, not what you thought would be important, or someone else thought would be important for you. I would also make the same recommendation before doing and major changes on a boat you buy, particularly if it is your first boat - spend some time living with it before making any changes.

Just as an example, you seem very concerned about keeping a catamaran warm, but given your proposed cruising route, for almost all of it heating is a non-issue, particularly as it sounds like you are tending towards cats that are likely to be built with a cored hull and deck. And if you did want to stay somewhere cold, adding a diesel heater is a lot easier and cheaper than adding aerogel, which I think at the moment retails at about $500/sq/ft.

Bottom line from my perspective is that there are lots of cats out there that could get you out cruising. Don't worry too much about finding the perfect one. Find one that you can live comfortably with and can afford, and then go!

Good luck with the project.
Mark.
Mark, that is sound advice. Let me share a bit more than may help.

First, I'm a dreamer. I know 90% of my dreams and crazy ideas will never come to work in the real world. But that's OK, because I'm aware of that fact and I know the 10% that do make it through to reality, are pretty freaking amazing!

In fact I'm working on a project now on something that doesn't exist. Am at the prototyping stage with a developer, and hope to be taking the design to market next year. If things go well, it should produce a nice, self-sustainable income for some time and perhaps even fund a nice cat.

I also have a design & engineering background from University and was in Civil Engineering for 9 years in the US Air Force. Although I don't have a lot of real world experience with boats (will be changing soon), I have a good head for numbers and engineering principles. I'll learn fast.

I totally agree, I desperately need to sail on a cat. Lots of them, and for long periods of time. So far my total sailing time comes to 6 days. But, I was told by my instructor on the competent crew course, that she was amazed it was my first time sailing. She's never seen everything come so naturally to someone before. Not trying to toot my own horn here (although if I toot it 5 times, you're more than welcome to give me a wide berth). I think a lot of my life experiences have conspired to prepare me for sailing without me realising it.

So, my plan.
This winter my focus is going to be on improving my navigation skills (although as I used to make maps for the Air Force, they are pretty well developed already - 2nd toot), get a first aid and VHS radio course out of the way and the day skipper and/or coastal skipper theory courses done. I'm going to be helping the school I sail with redesign their website in exchange for some courses. Bonus!

Next summer will be all about getting on the water. I want to do some dinghy sailing, but am also making connections with local sailors and building up a network of people I can crew for.

By 2018 I want to own my first boat. It may quite possibly even be a monohull (I know, don't throw stones). Right now I'm supporting my best friend as she finishes her sports massage therapy course. She should have her business up and running early next year, and self-sufficient by 2017/2018, just in time for me to move onto my boat - whatever that might be.

Boat 1 is going to be all about sailing around England and mastering my skills. It won't be an expensive boat, and not something I'll cross oceans with. I plan on sailing that boat for 2-4 years.

During which time I should have a 2nd or 3rd novel published and my invention idea off and running. If all goes well, I won't be peddling my IT skills any longer.

Then, I can get serious about my dream cat. I have no hesitation to build one myself, I nearly built an airplane when I was living in the States some years ago. Although, if the money is there, I'd rather design it and have someone else build it. There are a couple nice Cat manufacture's in the UK. But, perhaps I'm just dreaming. I do that a lot.

MG
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Old 28-10-2015, 16:18   #25
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Re: Why so many heads?

Derek,

Do you mind if I PM you? Would love to banter about some ideas. It sounds like we think alike on some topics.

I think there is.... no, let me start over. From what I've read there is a lot of benefit to having a Drogue on a cat in the event of rough seas and high winds. Personally, I think this is a very cool design - Jordan Series Drogue

I have a saying that I apply to many things in life, not the least of all sailing. "If it can break, it will break. If it can't break, it is only more shocking when it does."

Basically, everything breaks. One key to surviving any situation is being prepared for something to break, and quite often, a lot of things all at once.

I don't believe it is good enough to know what to do in an emergency. I think one needs to practice it. Guess it comes from 9 years in the military, but if you don't plan and practice for a disaster, you're not ready for a disaster.

If I owned a major cat manufacturing facility, I would have a mast-less cat configured on a poll that could spin it upside down (like a fair ride). And make sure all new owners knew what it felt like to capsize, and what to do - in a safe, controlled environment.

Never knew a cat self-righted before! Cool. I think it's just a matter of understanding the mechanics of it and designing accordingly. It's gotta be possible to build one.

And, if I'm being honest, I don't have a fear of capsizing. It just really annoys me how monohull sailors (many, not all of course) rag on multihull lovers, and their only real argument why they won't sail in a cat is because it doesn't self-right. I've had so many people tell me they'd never cross an ocean on a cat because it doesn't self right. I just roll my eyes and dream of building on that does.

I'm not one of those people you want to say 'it can't be done' to.

MG
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Old 28-10-2015, 20:54   #26
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Re: Why so many heads?

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Originally Posted by MoxieGirl View Post
If I owned a major cat manufacturing facility, I would have a mast-less cat configured on a poll that could spin it upside down (like a fair ride). And make sure all new owners knew what it felt like to capsize, and what to do - in a safe, controlled environment.

MG
Great way to scare away potential customers! Maybe monohull builders should offer buyers a trail sinking and drowning?

Maybe let buyers experience what it's like when a boat burns down to the waterline too?

Dismastings, LPG explosions, piracy, meteor strikes.. there's a whole range of experiences you could offer buyers, to turn them into either non buyers, or maybe even corpses...

An alternative might be to show people how to operate their boats sensibly, so they don't capsize, sink, burn, etc etc...?
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Old 29-10-2015, 01:35   #27
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Re: Why so many heads?

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Great way to scare away potential customers! Maybe monohull builders should offer buyers a trail sinking and drowning?

Maybe let buyers experience what it's like when a boat burns down to the waterline too?

Dismastings, LPG explosions, piracy, meteor strikes.. there's a whole range of experiences you could offer buyers, to turn them into either non buyers, or maybe even corpses...

An alternative might be to show people how to operate their boats sensibly, so they don't capsize, sink, burn, etc etc...?
You make some good points, and I can see how, if presented and handled wrongly, such a 'training course' might be off putting. And I wholeheartedly agree, learn to sail right and you should never be faced with catastrophic events.

But I'm a firm believer in that if you don't train for a disaster, you're not prepared for a disaster.

I hope to NEVER capsize a boat, burn a boat to the water line or even have a man overboard. But I train on how to retrieve someone out of the water, just in case. And I will carry (and already know how to) use fire extinguishers and how to deal with a fire.

I have trained for such emergencies, so if the worst happens I'm not standing there scratching my head for 5 minutes wondering what to do. Or am in shock by what's happening around me.

When I was in the Air Force, they didn't just hand us a gas mask, and say, "in the event of a gas attack, put this on." No, we pretended over and over again (for more hours than I care to remember) that we were attacked by gas and had to wear our gas masks. OK, maybe not a practical skill to have in IT or sailing, but by training for disaster, we make the disaster more survivable.

Prepare for the worst, plan for the best.

So... taking this train of thought one step further. Let's say the sees suddenly turned really rough and the gusting winds increase. Without warning you find your cat sliding sideways down a steep wave, out of control.

One of your crew or family members are down below as the cat starts to go over. Panicked, they thrown to the far wall and crack a rib, or break an arm.

But, if they had practiced that disaster in a safe place, perhaps they would have instinctively grabbed a handrail, or put themselves in a position where they wouldn't fall. Perhaps knowing to move to the correct side of the boat before it goes over, so they are not thrown about so much. Instead of panicking, they would have experienced it before and know what to do.

MG
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Old 29-10-2015, 04:30   #28
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Re: Why so many heads?

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But, if they had practiced that disaster in a safe place, perhaps they would have instinctively grabbed a handrail, or put themselves in a position where they wouldn't fall. Perhaps knowing to move to the correct side of the boat before it goes over, so they are not thrown about so much. Instead of panicking, they would have experienced it before and know what to do.

MG
I am amongst other areas a consultant in Risk Management, Disaster Prevention and Recovery. I have made a dollar or two in that area. There are a number of key points to address.

1. You need to undertake a risk review first. What are your risks, and then rate them, traditionally by using a combination of Likelihood and Consequence. Produce a matrix of assessed risk, Then you start by treating the risks - e.g. If something is High Likelihood and High consequence, treat that first, low likelihood and low consequence then treat it last. The risks change for different people on the same boat and different boats with the same people. In this instance on a Corsair DAsh with a racing crew a capsize might be med likelihood and low consequence, whereas a Seawind 1160 with a cruising couple might be very low likelihood and medium consequence

2. Treatment of the risk and consequential disaster involves a range of possible measures, firstly and usually the most inexpensive is to train in operation in order to prevent the assessed risk from occurring, i.e. train people to understand the dynamics and physics of what is occurring at sea and what occurs when you change points of attack of sail and with varying sea states and wind strengths. The training can and should consider understanding weather forecasting and routing. The best way to manage a disaster is to limit its chances of happening

3. Treatment of risk should then consider training in operations e.g. how to reef, simultaneously with improving the infrastructure , e.g. making reefing very very easy.

4. Treatment of risk should also consider assets, i.e. your process changes dependant on your crew level and experience and you can mediate that by getting extra and or more experienced crew when conditions increase the likelihood of the risk.

see for example this classic old tv advertisement:



5. It is only about now where you deal with the actual what do we do when it happens question, the cost of a boat/rig/insurance coverage/control/maritime agency approval would be quite outrageous for all but the biggest companies, and when assessed against the likelihood of the event would simply not be warranted.

6. You should also treat risk by considering reparation., e.g. Insurance amongst other things.

Good disasters require an implementation of the swiss cheese theory, that is you have to get an awful lot of holes to line up before you can get water from one side to the other, to put this in a seagoing context read the coroners findings in the Malu Sara incident:

Coroners Findings

Simply saying that "it could happen therefore we practice what to do after it happens " is not appropriate and is both costly and ignores the predisposition of factors.

Quote:
So... taking this train of thought one step further. Let's say the sees suddenly turned really rough and the gusting winds increase. Without warning you find your cat sliding sideways down a steep wave, out of control.
It won't happen without warning, seas take a little while to build, as do winds, even in extreme cases you will have sufficient time to implement strategies, eg reef choose a different angle, etc, and if you don't you should still be implementing consequence control measures like ensuring everyone is advised of crisis situation and need for self preservation, and at the same time steerage techniques for capsize avoidance. And similar. Training in control and management is way way more productive.
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Old 29-10-2015, 05:14   #29
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Re: Why so many heads?

Factor,

That was a beautiful and well presented reply. Couldn't agree with you more, and I can see where my approach was overkill and perhaps not practical. (One of the downsides of my fanciful dreams)

When I was learning to fly, one of the things we learned was that it isn't the one thing that goes wrong that causes a crash, it is normally a bunch of little things stacking up.

So, like you say, an inexperienced crew, on a boat they don't know well, in seas they weren't prepared for, not checking the weather before sailing, etc... Any one of these in its own would be survivable, but combined...

And, when you take all that into account, and do things right, cats are staggeringly safe.

Thank you for the links (love the vid) and the thoughtful reply.

MG


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Old 29-10-2015, 06:03   #30
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Re: Why so many heads?

Moxie. All this armchair sailing is going to drive you nuts!

Get a boat, will ya? Doesn't have to be much to start out. There are plenty of nearly-free 25 to 27 foot monos out there to get you going.

It'll help you put your musings in context and provide a test bed for your ideas....
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