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Old 23-11-2015, 10:30   #16
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
I think what 2Hulls meant Art was that it is such an ignorant thing to say, that it must be a joke. But I think it's just a Troll comment, not worthy of any consideration.


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Explain please.
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:48   #17
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

I'll try to explain, Art.

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If you're talking about cruising catamarans, most are designed to be flat and stable and nearly impossible to overturn. Daggerboards, to be effective, would work against that objective.
This is incorrect with regard to the daggerboard statement. There is no reason a board cat would be more susceptible to capsizing than a non-board cat. In fact, a board cat would be less susceptible to tripping over it's boards sideways when the boards are up vs keels.

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I only know of one cruising type catamaran that was made with daggerboards, and that model (I can't even remember the name of it now) had been known to overturn under some conditions.
Catana, Outreamer, Chris White designs, Gunboat, Balance, etc., etc., etc. and a bunch of other designs that are too numerous to list. And all boats can overturn in "some conditions".

So, your statements were incorrect to the point of being either a joke or grossly miss-informed, and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Dave
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:54   #18
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

I guess because it is hard to believe that anyone who has interst in catamarans, let alone the owner of one, could suggest that there are no cruising catamarans with boards or that they are somehow unsafe! Have you really never heard of Catana, Dolphin, Grainger, Atlantic, even the original Gemini cats, etc.,etc.? Wow!

As to stabiity, most naval architects will acknowledge that having boards should actually improve transverse stability in heavy condition as one can raise the leeward board (or both) and eliminate the risk of the boat tripping up on its leeward keel.

So yes, it was either a joke or an expression of supreme ignorance about catamarans.
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:57   #19
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

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I'll try to explain, Art.
It seems that if you try, you can succeed. And further, you succeeded in answering the OP's question whereas before you contributed nothing at all.

Thanks for your contribution.
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Old 23-11-2015, 12:31   #20
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

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And further, you succeeded in answering the OP's question whereas before you contributed nothing at all.
Actually, I didn't answer the OP's original question. I don't know why there's no list of cats with daggerboards. So I had nothing to contribute.

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Old 23-11-2015, 13:44   #21
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
I'll try to explain, Art.



This is incorrect with regard to the daggerboard statement. There is no reason a board cat would be more susceptible to capsizing than a non-board cat.




So, your statements were incorrect to the point of being either a joke or grossly miss-informed, and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Dave
I know its Heresy, but ArtM is correct. As was demonstrated over and over again on the race course, and noted by the designer himself the daggerboard generates lift to windward and hence an Adams 13 is less stiff with its unballasted (neutrally ballasted)dagger board down.

Certainly harder to detectect on a stable platform like a catamaran but true none the less.

Now, lifting a deep board so the stability returns closer to a shallow mini keel vessel is a different argument altogether,.

Crow anyone?
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Old 23-11-2015, 14:22   #22
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

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Crow anyone?
Sure. The Adams 13 is a monohull. It shouldn't be surprising that it'll heel a bit more - what you refer to a "less stiff" - due to the lift of the board. That has little to no relevance to daggerboard cats.

Before you answer be sure to have thought of the effect of having two boards.

Dave
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Old 23-11-2015, 14:38   #23
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

Of course a dagger board creates lift to windward - and indeed more than a LAR keel on a cat. Similarly, a deep fin keel produces more lift on a monohull than a shallow full keel. This is why in both cases, the former typically sail better to windward than the latter.

However, in the case of a board, unlike a deep fixed keel, a prudent sailor has the ability to raise the boards in heavy conditions so that it not only reduces resistance to leeway that then mirrors a less efficient LAR keel, but so that it has even less resistance (in effect, none except that which is generated by the hulls and rudders). As a result, it will have even greater resistance to capsize in heavy conditions.

To reject this notion is akin to suggesting that no cruising boat should have a sail area that requires reefing in heavy air! All boats require adjustments in heavy conditions in order to avoid capsize ; fortunately, a cat with boards can be adjusted so that it is even harder to capsize than one with LAR keels.

Brad
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Old 23-11-2015, 16:11   #24
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

Spade anyone?
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Old 01-12-2015, 16:19   #25
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
If you're talking about cruising catamarans, most are designed to be flat and stable and nearly impossible to overturn. Daggerboards, to be effective, would work against that objective.

I only know of one cruising type catamaran that was made with daggerboards, and that model (I can't even remember the name of it now) had been known to overturn under some conditions.

If you're talking about racing catamarans, I'd be surprised if they didn't all have daggerboards, or at least the option to add them.

Fullfi Boa Sempor
Daggerboards are meant to be used only when sailing to windward, and generally only fully deployed when sailing to windward in very light conditions. In heavy conditions they are raised, and make the boat LESS likely to capsize.

There have been many production cruising catamarans with daggerboards. Gunboats, Chris White Atlantics, Outremers, Catanas... and more.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:18   #26
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Re: Why Is There No List of Catamarans With Daggerboards?

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I only know of one cruising type catamaran that was made with daggerboards, and that model (I can't even remember the name of it now) had been known to overturn under some conditions.
Seriously? YOu cant remember about the name or design but you remember it had daggerboards and turned over? Seriously?

As to you original premise, no, a daggerboard boat , all other things being equal is far less likely to capsize, IF SAILED CORRECTLY. eg in extreme conditions fully raising leeward board and indeed only inserting windward board when absolutely needed.
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