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Old 17-01-2010, 17:40   #61
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I am amazed at how many posters here consider it to be a stupid thing to do, I suspect because they have never done it themselves or have little faith in their own skills or the ability of their vessel.

Consider that there are many seamen around the world who do bar crossings as a part of everyday life and have no real issues due to the fact that they know what they are doing and have vessels suited for the job.

Also consider that this bar (in the video) is only short, the ride was only 20 seconds, and if they have done various bar crossing previously, in various wave heights and conditions, then they will have felt well in control of the situation.
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Old 17-01-2010, 20:58   #62
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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
I am amazed at how many posters here consider it to be a stupid thing to do, I suspect because they have never done it themselves or have little faith in their own skills or the ability of their vessel.

Consider that there are many seamen around the world who do bar crossings as a part of everyday life and have no real issues due to the fact that they know what they are doing and have vessels suited for the job.

Also consider that this bar (in the video) is only short, the ride was only 20 seconds, and if they have done various bar crossing previously, in various wave heights and conditions, then they will have felt well in control of the situation.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single authoritative tome on small craft seamanship that would agree with this point of view. If you can find said passage, please point us there and I'll retract.
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Old 17-01-2010, 21:03   #63
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I try try avoid being on the evening news. Ususally being in the news is a bad thing.
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Old 17-01-2010, 21:23   #64
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I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single authoritative tome on small craft seamanship that would agree with this point of view. If you can find said passage, please point us there and I'll retract.
I am sure most "books" would say that bar crossings are not something to be taken lightly, I said the same.

Those same books would also say that to sail when the weather is foul is an unseamanlike thing to do as well, yet, every year we have people out there racing and dying in shitty weather in the pursuit of a silver cup or name on some plaque.

What if you live in an area where bar crossings are a daily happening?

Do you just not go out because a "Book" says they are unsafe?
Or do you get the skills up and the equipment to handle the situation if and when it arises?
Hopefully never need to but when you do need to isnt it nice to know that you can do a crossing with a high degree of control and safety?

A bit like driving a car , average idiot buys a car and thinks he can drive fast and kills himself.
Experienced driver has a pretty good idea where the limits are and drives accordingly.

I suspect these guys had a pretty good idea where their and the boats limits were and handled the situation accordingly.

I would not expect average joe idiot to be able to do the same and was not advocating that they should try, without the appropriate vessel or experience.
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Old 17-01-2010, 21:38   #65
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He knew what he was doing, he was trained, and he did a good job of it. Didn't look like a loss of control at all. He'd gathered all the facts and made an informed decision and depended on his solid boat and his tight crew. I applaud the whole thing. My wife has done many many many bar crossings in similar and worse conditions. Good boat, good training and a tight crew and nothing else interesting to report about her going out in 35' waves (wave face height) in a 30' boat.
Just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean it's wrong. I wouldn't shoot my ass into space on a frigging rocket but a lot of people have done it and most of them lived to tell about it.
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Old 17-01-2010, 21:43   #66
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i think they were frigin tired. They knew the next port was a bit off and chose to surf the bar. not saying it was the wrong choice but they thought about a bit and then made a run for it. Like I said they made the evening news which usually we wouldn't strive for.
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Old 17-01-2010, 22:06   #67
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Like I said they made the evening news which usually we wouldn't strive for.
So?

It was a spectacular thing for the uninitiated to watch, therefore newsworthy.

Doesn't mean it was necessarily dangerous or foolish.
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Old 17-01-2010, 22:13   #68
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he was trained, .

Did anyone bother to ask how much of his Lakes Entrance bar crossing course was devoted to getting a large slow sail cat over a bar, and how much was devoted to high speed run-a-bouts that are taught to sit on the back of an incoming wave and adjust the throttles to stay there.

Maybe the 6-8 knot displacement boat has little control over the situation in comparison and has to "take it like a man", and hopefully good design will prevail. Are all sail cats good designs? and which ones are unsuitable for bar crossings?
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Old 17-01-2010, 23:20   #69
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Are all sail cats good designs? and which ones are unsuitable for bar crossings?
I imagine like most things a bit of trial and error would tell you soon enough

First time they surf a 1 metre wave : Weeee, that was fun, lets go out and do it again.

Next time they have a go on a 2 metre day: weeeee, that was even more fun, see how easy it was to control

another time they try a 3 metre wave: weeee, ooh, weeee, oooh, that was a bit hairy, but we still did it OK, bows were up and the helm was light as a feather, I think it would be better if I put some more board down next time.


Or maybe it was oooh, that wasnt good, the bows felt like they were stuffing and the helm felt real heavy, perhaps this boat doesnt like surfing much.


What do you think?
Would that be a fair analogy as to how one would find out how well a vessel surfs or not and how suitable it would be for a bar crossing without just jumping straight in at the deep end?
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Old 18-01-2010, 06:02   #70
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People who spend all their flying time on Boeing airplanes using professional crew who land and take off from a mile of smooth paved concrete runway under the constant direction of Air Traffic Controllers probably can't imagine landing a single engine plane by themselves on a few hundred feet of bumpy dirt.
Yet thousands of people do it every day just to commute to and from work. And they would be surprised at someone else thinking there was anything particularly noteworthy about it.

Yet a film crew could make it seem like something that needed to be news.
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Old 18-01-2010, 06:46   #71
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So how do you guys think his insurance company would have reacted if the outcome been different since the skipper had been warned against it and he did have options?Im not saying theres anything wrong with what he did but with a half mil claim i would think the insurance co would have plenty of amo to wiggle out of that one.
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Old 18-01-2010, 07:36   #72
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Hey, the bottom line is that the guy clearly nearly lost it. People survive stupidity everyday. It doesn't mean they survive it all the time. I don't see expert seamanship in this video; I see luck.
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Old 18-01-2010, 08:30   #73
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I can find someone who will advise me against walking outside today. Crime rate too high. Risk of skin cancer. Atmospheric pollution.


That boat was a long way from losing it.
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Old 18-01-2010, 09:09   #74
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As the original thread starter......I find this thing boiling down to who would have done what, and he should have done this or that or not....funny I never once thought of that. Never crossed my mind....I was admiring how well the boat design took to the conditions.
We all have different risk tolerances, and training, and experience, and different boats. I give you an example.
I have worked in the Bearing Sea since 1980. I was a deck hand king crabbing for 5 years, then we converted the boat to a trawler and I ran it for the last 25 or so. Winter and summer....I was taught by the best people in the business to basically go quietly about my business. I got severely lashed verbally by my original skipper, he caught me going on about what we had just gone through. He told me, "on this boat, we don't have scary stories" Those are for the guys in the bar, who's boat is a mess, and the are one slip up from falling apart. Be a professional, shut up and get it done.
Well that all worked until the TV show came out.....now I cannot tell people what I do without Oh...Ahh...wow do you know those guys on the show?
Yes...(groan)... I know them all. Before the show they were just regular crabbers (silver back knuckle draggers)....and now the are stars, and have to create drama for the show. I had a friend recently quit the show, they wanted him to fire a guy (fake) in a yelling match, and wanted his wife to fake puking in the head. It is embarrassing to most of us in the Biz.
My point? Well...ahhh....I have been told my whole life how dangerous or crazy my line of work is. But it has never felt that way. You do everything in your power to make it right, and deal with it.
I don't think we can judge this guys actions by our own experience or beliefs. It is easy to do, but I don't think it is good to do. It made good drama, only because the camera was rolling. Then it freaked everyone out. I suspect the guy is real glad he made it, was not all that thrilled about having to do it, and would rather not have to do it again if he could. I have felt the same way many times. Glad when it is over, but it is part of what we do. Real glad his boat was capable, and things went good.
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Old 18-01-2010, 09:37   #75
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