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Old 10-01-2010, 09:54   #16
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I enjoyed watching this like I enjoy watch the program "The worlds dumbest drivers"
Did I miss the medical or other type emergency reason for pulling this move? I'm with Maxingout, I like my life and boat too much to attempt stupidity. Had somone been drowned or injured the disscussion would be entirely diffrent.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:26   #17
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No way would I have done that,looks like an expensive risk!
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:29   #18
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I think we can all come up with many reasons why this should not have happened at all. My "take " on it was the appreciation of the boat design to weather such an incident.
Jim Brown (Searunner designer) said many years ago. "If you want to feel safe, take a car that is designed for 150 miles per hour, and keep it at 60" Same thing with these boats, if they are designed to surf and not bury, they have a huge margin of safety. You may never do this, but if it happens you have a fighting chance of making it.
The same Jim Brown was deathly sick in Central America with two young boys and his wife on their 31' Tri. They crossed an ummarked breaking river bar to try to get Jim some help. They got out of the channel, bounced hard on the sand with every surge, and popped back into the channel safe. He said a mono would still be on that sand bar.
That is (one reason) I like Multi's (good ones) You need that kind of reserve to be there when things are happening that you never choose to happen.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:06   #19
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I think jmolan has a good point about design but I disagree with his take to dis monos in the process. Many cats couldn't handle it just like many monos couldn't handle it just like many skippers couldn't handle it.... ya get my point? Each good quality boat has it's pros and cons. One good design shouldn't rule out the other.
But again I think it is a great commentary about thoughtful design, we talk about it, we rarely encounter critical situations to see why a good design is a good design.
Cheers,
Erika (who owns a good thoughtful design )

P.S. I'd stand offshore before crossing or head to the other approach. Even it my boat can handle it (I think she could, but I may not) too much risk for a situation with so many better options.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:08   #20
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He didn't even have to stand off shore and wait for conditions to abate. He could have sailed North and used the shipping channel at the top of Moreton island in deep water. Pretty silly stuff.

The boat handled it well though.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:26   #21
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I am glad that it ended up like it did, that would have scared me to death. But the people are OK and the boat is OK. I hope that other people do not see this and think to follow his example.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:33   #22
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Oceangirl, I am sorry if you thought my comments were a "dis" on monohulls. I have spent 35 years in the Bearing Sea on a monohull, and would not want it any other way.
My original reason to start this thread was that I admired how the boat design saved the situation. In the work boat world I learned to build up "reserve". As much as you can. Your reserve is the thing that will keep you afloat or keep you going, when problems arise. There have been a few times at work where we relied on the reserve. In the case of the video clip, the bows were fine enough, but not too fine, the rudders continued to work, things must have stayed put inside and not shift around...on and on.
I am afraid this thread will become a "what would you have done" or, I would never have done that, or...what kind of a dumb a** would try that? Kind of thread.
That was not my reason for starting this, it was for how boat design can bail you out. What if they had wandered up on the surf in the dark and were lost? What if?...ahhhh you name it!
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Old 10-01-2010, 13:52   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
Oceangirl, I am sorry if you thought my comments were a "dis" on monohulls. I have spent 35 years in the Bearing Sea on a monohull, and would not want it any other way.
My original reason to start this thread was that I admired how the boat design saved the situation. In the work boat world I learned to build up "reserve". As much as you can. Your reserve is the thing that will keep you afloat or keep you going, when problems arise. There have been a few times at work where we relied on the reserve. In the case of the video clip, the bows were fine enough, but not too fine, the rudders continued to work, things must have stayed put inside and not shift around...on and on.
I am afraid this thread will become a "what would you have done" or, I would never have done that, or...what kind of a dumb a** would try that? Kind of thread.
That was not my reason for starting this, it was for how boat design can bail you out. What if they had wandered up on the surf in the dark and were lost? What if?...ahhhh you name it!

I agree with you original point. Yeah I think it was stupid, but the boat did handle it. Though I think my order of business once I made it in would be to give that boat a big sloppy kiss...then go have that morning brew.
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Old 10-01-2010, 14:37   #24
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So whats the consensus on his recovery? Think he just white knuckled it on the rudder the entire way, or was he composed enough to load up on his port prop and reverse his starboard. I wish he'd had said a few words in that regard. If he was composed enough to work the throttle the entire time (which I believe he did)- then I'm inclined to give him a bit of a pass on the stupidometer. Not many captains would be able to recover that far into a drift. Impressive helms work in any event.
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Old 10-01-2010, 18:03   #25
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That was not my reason for starting this, it was for how boat design can bail you out. What if they had wandered up on the surf in the dark and were lost? What if?...ahhhh you name it!
That is what I got out of it, I didn't take offense ( my mono hackles were not jostled ). Just felt the need to point out this isn't a multi/mono thing, it is all about good design like you said.
Peace ,
Erika
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Old 10-01-2010, 19:06   #26
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So whats the consensus on his recovery? Think he just white knuckled it on the rudder the entire way, or was he composed enough to load up on his port prop and reverse his starboard. .
Would he have to?

My last 2 cats had nothing special in the way of rudders, both have sailed in through surf, the last one had been in similar conditions to the video and a much longer distance as well. ( Wide Bay Bar, 30 knots + on gusts and 5 metre waves and going in the long way)

Neither of them had any issue whatsoever tracking and steering across and down the face of waves.

Scary? At times, yes
Eyes like dinner plates? Most definitely
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Old 10-01-2010, 20:17   #27
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Quote:
Wide Bay Bar, 30 knots + on gusts and 5 metre waves and going in the long way)
Man, that would have been quite a ride. "Wide Bay Bar" the longest on the Qld coast You'd have a long time to consider whether it was a good idea or not. If you had a video of that it would be feature film length !
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Old 10-01-2010, 21:49   #28
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Man, that would have been quite a ride. "Wide Bay Bar" the longest on the Qld coast You'd have a long time to consider whether it was a good idea or not. If you had a video of that it would be feature film length !
I didnt really have much time at all, thats the thing

I was single handing and the weather was deteriorating. It was ok when I left Brisbane but it had rapidly changed.

I did contemplate hiding behind DIP, but the wind was expected to switch to the north during the next day at similar speed, so totally unsuitable anchorage and the bar was expected to be much worse and the 70 nm bash back to Mooloolabah did not sound to good either.

It was still easily manageable as I sailed past DIP with full main and heady so continued, even as the wind upped a bit in a rush for the bar before it closed out totally.

Decided for the first time not to take the fishermans gutter along the beach and go the long way instead as per CG recomendation, checked waypoints with coasties and went for it planning to ditch the main and stooge in under heady alone for the crossing.

About a mile from the first waypoint I logged on with cg, fitted washboards, and was about to reduce sail when a large 5 metre ish wave seemingly jumped up from starboard rear quarter dictating that I was running, which meant autopilot off, turning onto a reach increasing the wind. (I should have gone out wide before coming back in to first waypoint)

After what seemed like an eternity of dinner plate eyes with whoops of delight in amongst shitting of pants, the anchor at times rattling in the wave in front while a wave seemed to tower from behind and being able on occasion to see the bottom as I was off the recommended course due to some wild steering and surfing action .

Very happy indeed, logged off with CG, checked log and gps to see a 25.8 knot top speed recorded, turned right, grabbed a beer, cranked up the stereo , had a dance and continued on to Kingfisher for the night.

Loved that boat.

There were 2 vessels lost on that bar over the next couple of days going in the long way and I have never taken the long way in since, always the fishermans passage figuring 5 minutes of terror with the beach close by is better than a long sail and a drowning if things do go pear shaped.
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Old 10-01-2010, 22:55   #29
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Having crossed the bar at the mouth of the Volta River where it enters the Atlantic not once but several times a year for 3 years. The very first time in a Bertram 42 which could cruise at 23 knots with its twin Detroit 485 hp engines.
We had taken some visitors from Kazakstan out to the continental shelf about 25 miles off-shore to fish for Sailfish, it wasn't very long before 2 of the guests got violently sea sick and asked to return to our camp at Ada on the river. Well by the time we got back the river mouth the surf was really running - with good 10 >> 14ft waves. The bar was very wide with waves breaking hard.
Stood well back from the breakers while having a good look from the tuna tower - then got everyone into life jackets and hunkered them down in the cockpit - then took aim on a particular coconut palm and went for it - NO Problem until the wave we had been riding got left behind and we entered FOAM - That's when I discovered that in FOAM, props have no traction - I thought for a split second that we had lost the props on the sand bar as the engines were screaming - eased the throttle almost to idle, and retained some steerage with the very small rudders. A few seconds later a following wave caught up and lifted the aft end of the boat and pushed us towards the river - I then applied only enough RPM to stay with the wave until we were over the bar and in good water.
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Old 10-01-2010, 23:47   #30
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And so ......
If one could rationalize a good enough reason to have to (this would be where the rationalization comes in) try this in a Mono, what would be the best approach?
Would it be to have some jib out to try to keep the bow out front?
Would you try to tow a drogue of some sort and hope it doesn't get caught on something?
With the sails down and the engine running and ready to gun it to maintain steerage?
Or some combination of the above?
Or .... something else?
Remember, you've already made the decision (for what ever good reason) to do it, so what's your best chance to make it?
If you were desperate enough, do you think so long as you weren't too far off in alignment that you could bring the boat in backward dragging a sea anchor and still be able to influence the boat in the right direction?

What do you think?
I'd be interested in hearing some experienced thoughts.

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