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Old 09-03-2015, 21:14   #286
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"In all seriousness, have you considered my earlier comments around the Schionning Designs? Schionning Designs - Leaders in Multihull Design and Kit Development"

thanks for the idea but I have no interest in a build it project. The suggested designs are beautiful but we are not light weight cruisers. We would load down those great boats and turn them into pigs.

The only one for sale in North America is way too spartan for our needs or interest at this point in our lifes.
Fair enough

Good luck with your search.
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Old 09-03-2015, 21:49   #287
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

TS,

this is a link for a similar but later model vessel located in Australia. I think it has been for sale for approx 9mths and has dropped from If I recall A$699000 to A$550000 not as well fitted out but much later vessel built as a Barrumundi in Sri Lanka.

I expect it will go at around A$500000 and with your currency advantage of approx $100000 it might be a better bet. recon you could get it for US$400000 and put in a couple of upgrades.

Barramundi 4700 Performance Sailing Catamaran: Sailing Catamaran for Sale | Epoxy Corecell Sandwich / Vacuum Infusion Sail Boats | Boats Online | Queensland (Qld) - Qld

http://www.tradeboats.com.au/detail/...tamaran/256469

cheers
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Old 10-03-2015, 06:13   #288
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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[I]
"Any less than that and I've politely suggested the buyer look at some other yachts closer to their budget.."

That is a curious statement to make. If the only two offers received over a four year period are 30% below offering price - then I would suspect the offering price is a bit too high. Are you saying any owner can set any price they wish, no matter what the market will pay, and you will only accept offers near the otherwise ridiculous offering price?

Doesn't seem realistic to me!

Yes that's exactly what I am saying.
The owner can set any price they wish
And
The owner can accept or reject any offer they wish

Take a look at some of the mega yachts that are bought for 12M and sold a year later for 15M. These guys aren't crazy or asking ridiculous prices. The boats are commodities to them. Something to be bought and sold. If they list it at 15M it's their prerogative and they probably don't care if it sells or if they use it for a few years before it does.
Also, brokers don't like to work for no pay, probably less than anyone..so they would hesitate to list a yacht for much more than they think they can sell it for. There's nothing in it for them except commission on the sale. So the owner wants close to 525K, the buyer wants to pay closer to $450K. The broker is working for the owner so he has to gently massage the owner into accepting less than he wants with statements like..oh the market has really softened since we agreed 525K was a reasonable expectation, or....oh the USD/EUR has really changed the state of play..etc..
At the same time he has to try bring the potential buyers up with comments like...well he's already rejected offers at 400K or...he's thinking of donating the boat to a charity..or..he has another interested party he's dealing with and not interested in negotiating at this time. Any of which may or may not be true, but it's the brokers job to make you believe it is.
So when you say he has rejected lower offers in the past, that has no bearing on what he is willing to accept. It just means he rejected offers that were too low. It doesn't make a difference if it was 200k or 400k, it wasn't enough for him at that time. All this does is give you a ballpark figure of what your minimum offer might be. More important is what your maximum offer might be which is really all that matters. You either get it for what you are willing to pay, or you don't.
One thing that surprises me a bit is that you have been looking at this boat, and say you walk past it regularly, but you haven't sailed on it? That would be one of my first priorities. Why have t you sailed on it..or have you?
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Old 10-03-2015, 07:39   #289
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Test Sail, and Hydraulic vs Tiller Steering

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One thing that surprises me a bit is that you have been looking at this boat, and say you walk past it regularly, but you haven't sailed on it? That would be one of my first priorities. Why have t you sailed on it..or have you?
Still haven't finished reading thru this subject thread, but jumped to the latest posting this morning.

I agree about the test sail,...why not if you are really interested?

There is one thing that bothers me as a sailor,....certainly not a 'deal killer', but one I detest,....hydraulic steering. You just DON"T get good feedback thru the helm. In fact many wheel systems, be they hydraulic or not, don't give good helm feedback. Without this, its more difficult to determine if you really have your sails properly trimmed/balanced. This can result in you having to constantly 'steer' the vessel back onto course, or the autopilot to overwork to compensate for the 'imbalance'. Give me a good tiller system if at all possible.
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Old 10-03-2015, 14:09   #290
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Re: Test Sail, and Hydraulic vs Tiller Steering

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Still haven't finished reading thru this subject thread, but jumped to the latest posting this morning.

I agree about the test sail,...why not if you are really interested?

There is one thing that bothers me as a sailor,....certainly not a 'deal killer', but one I detest,....hydraulic steering. You just DON"T get good feedback thru the helm. In fact many wheel systems, be they hydraulic or not, don't give good helm feedback. Without this, its more difficult to determine if you really have your sails properly trimmed/balanced. This can result in you having to constantly 'steer' the vessel back onto course, or the autopilot to overwork to compensate for the 'imbalance'. Give me a good tiller system if at all possible.




I find a rudder angle indicator to mitigate this. Sure, no feedback, but watching the indicator tells you all you need to know to balance the boat.
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Old 10-03-2015, 20:15   #291
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

How do you get a test sail without an accepted offer?


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Old 10-03-2015, 20:16   #292
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Tiller steering on a 51' cat? Good luck with that!


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Old 10-03-2015, 20:26   #293
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

The Outremer 51 and 5X (59') have optional tiller steering but they are the exception.
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Old 10-03-2015, 20:29   #294
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Tiller steering on a 51' cat? Good luck with that!


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http://www.catamaran-outremer.com/Fo...remer%20US.pdf

No luck needed!
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Old 10-03-2015, 20:38   #295
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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How do you get a test sail without an accepted offer?


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Good question
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Old 10-03-2015, 21:14   #296
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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How do you get a test sail without an accepted offer?
"One thing that surprises me a bit is that you have been looking at this boat, and say you walk past it regularly, but you haven't sailed on it? That would be one of my first priorities. Why have t you sailed on it..or have you?"

OH - my oversight!

I'm sure most owners of 1/2 Million dollar boats let almost anyone that says they are interested take their boat out for a sail - anytime - anyplace - even when the seller and potential buyer can't agree to a fair price. I guess I just forgot to ask.

On a more serious note - a good friend was the captain on the boat and did a great deal of sailing on the boat. He and I have drunk a lot of beer and spent a lot of time talking about sailing in general and sailing Adagio in particular. I was fairly confident the boat sailed very nicely. The sailing feel and performance was low on my list of concerns.
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Old 10-03-2015, 22:00   #297
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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The Outremer 51 and 5X (59') have optional tiller steering but they are the exception.

Yes, but optional tiller steering also includes the wheel for those less than ideal conditions. I'm a lover of tillers myself, but in a boat of that size and displacement, not realistic.


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Old 11-03-2015, 05:16   #298
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"One thing that surprises me a bit is that you have been looking at this boat, and say you walk past it regularly, but you haven't sailed on it? That would be one of my first priorities. Why have t you sailed on it..or have you?"

OH - my oversight!

I'm sure most owners of 1/2 Million dollar boats let almost anyone that says they are interested take their boat out for a sail - anytime - anyplace - even when the seller and potential buyer can't agree to a fair price. I guess I just forgot to ask.

On a more serious note - a good friend was the captain on the boat and did a great deal of sailing on the boat. He and I have drunk a lot of beer and spent a lot of time talking about sailing in general and sailing Adagio in particular. I was fairly confident the boat sailed very nicely. The sailing feel and performance was low on my list of concerns.

No need to be snarky about it mate. I would certainly be taking out any serious potential buyers on my boat. The norm is to pay a small refundable fee should the sale go ahead. The reason is not just to test the sailing performance, it's to check the systems and general operation of the boat. Ie, how easy is it to manage short handed, raising sails, reefing, motoring, docking, do systems work as advertised, how does it feel etc.
This is what I've done in the past and it usually just takes an hour or so. So..simple question/smart as answer.
Good luck.
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:25   #299
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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No need to be snarky about it mate. I would certainly be taking out any serious potential buyers on my boat. The norm is to pay a small refundable fee should the sale go ahead. The reason is not just to test the sailing performance, it's to check the systems and general operation of the boat. Ie, how easy is it to manage short handed, raising sails, reefing, motoring, docking, do systems work as advertised, how does it feel etc.
This is what I've done in the past and it usually just takes an hour or so. So..simple question/smart as answer.
Good luck.

The norm is to have a signed contract and a 10% deposit put down before a sea trial. The sea trial is usually, but not always done the same day as the survey so the surveyor can check out the sails motors etc.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:12   #300
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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The norm is to have a signed contract and a 10% deposit put down before a sea trial. The sea trial is usually, but not always done the same day as the survey so the surveyor can check out the sails motors etc.
That doesnt work for me. If I had no experience with the vessels manufacture, or was thinking of changing from mono to multi, Im not going to sign a contract and put 10% down.

I look at paying a surveyor as "lost money" if I decide to not purchase, and so with a prelim sea trial. I will pay a sum for the trial to be refunded if purchased and lost if I decide no. 1K should cover 4 hours in a test.

No way will I put 50K down and sign agreement unless I have some clue as to what Im buying.

Ive never had a problem doing this ......
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