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Old 27-02-2015, 12:20   #16
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Having a 28' beam limits where you can have it hauled.

But perhaps instead of dwelling on why it hasn't sold other than the possibility that's it's still over priced, consider making an offer contingent on survey and get a surveyor who you trust will give you a fair market value. Make it a low offer.

Or determine what you are willing to spend on any boat and see what's listed on the east coast if that's where you will be going. There will be plenty to pick from.

PS: if you end up buying this boat, get some bigger anchors.

Dave
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Old 27-02-2015, 12:42   #17
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I would consider this to be a good comp. http://www.multihull.nl/multihulls/u...7640.fotos.htm
A LeRouge design but newer and built by a very well known yard.
But then you have this http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/25369
Which makes the LeRouge look like a steal! I would think the LeRouge would be a faster sell and get a better price on the east coast. It's probably built much better than the typical charter cat and would sail circles around it, but people are afraid of the unknown.
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Old 27-02-2015, 13:34   #18
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I have seen one owner of a similar (54') cat trying to sell his boat for at least 5 years, without success. The initial asking was 750k when the boat was some 5 y.o., later it became 400k when she turned 10 y.o., and so on and so forth. I worked on that boat. I would not buy any one-off cat built in a non-existent boatyard. Even a Lerouge one.

I am not sure what your sailing plans are. It is not the least physically demanding job to sail a 50+ ft boat. Marina fees are pretty steep for cats too (I guess no problem in your case as you are buying a 500k boat anyways).

Go have a look at the boat. Then think it over. Twice. Then do what you find gets to be done.

Happy sailing, fair winds,
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Old 27-02-2015, 13:53   #19
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

The boat appears to be sitting on it's waterline pretty level to me...?
Good comments on the size and beam etc though...
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Old 27-02-2015, 14:26   #20
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I think if you search hard enough you will find out that followingCs is correct
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Old 27-02-2015, 14:30   #21
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by scarlet View Post
overpriced... 50+ foot cats don't have as big of a market as the 35-45' size... Not a well known brand... not a lot of folks looking for Cats on the west coast most prefer east coast due to the close proximity to the caribbean...

those are my guesses...

I looked at the pictures, and it isn't anything I'd be interested in.. but that's just me..

All of the above, plus it has sail drive, which steers me away from it.

The ones I'm looking at are 45' for less than half that price, yet they have 4 queen cabins with ensuite heads and shaft drives, plus there are a lot more of them built so there are more people with the same model for info and advice and price comparisons.
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Old 27-02-2015, 14:56   #22
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

At 67, with bad knees and worried about resale value, I think I'd just look for an early 2000's Nordhavn. Cheaper, easier on the old joints, easier to dock/moor and haul out etc, beautiful, luxurious and strong resale value.
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Old 27-02-2015, 15:10   #23
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I'm going to throw this question out there for what it's worth...but I was constantly thinking it as I was looking through all the photos and specs.

Most cruisers...like a huge majority...are couples.
So what does a couple (mostly retired and a bit older) need with a 50Ft Cat?

Now hold on....don't get me wrong because once we get these kids outta here my wife and I are heading back to Mexico on our Hudson Force Ludicrously too Big 50, so I'm not judging anyone's boat size decision.

What I'm saying is that I think the size and perception of how big is too big has a lot to do with the boat not selling. The price...na....that not it, have you checked out the prices of the 50ft mono's at the boat shows....gheeze. I think it's just the size of the boat and the couples cruising market of thinking it is too big for a couple to handle.

I guarantee you this...change the name of the boat to something cool like "Gunboat" and people will flock to it without knowing much about it, just due to the cool name!
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Old 27-02-2015, 15:18   #24
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
My wife and I have now decided we really do want to buy the boat:

51ft Lerouge Catamaran - Price Reduced! - Eric Lerouge design combines luxury ... - SeaBoats

BUT - my wife is the sensible one and keeps asking one very disturbing question:

Adagio seems to be a beautiful, well made and carefully maintained boat. It is for sale at a very reasonable price. SO - why hasn't anyone purchased her during the three years she has been for sale here in San Diego?

She then follows up with the next question that is the show stopper:

You (me - the old tired sailor) are 67 years old with bad knees. Sometime in the next seven or eight years you will have to sell Adagio. Who will buy her if it took three years for us to decide to buy her?

What answer does this esteemed group of catamaran enthusiasts have to my wife's two tough question?

She is very concerned we will never be able to sell Adagio if we buy her and sail to Florida. She worries we will be stuck with the operating cost of a 51' x 28' catamaran forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Thanks for the comments - they are about the same as my wife has expressed to me. My problem is that I am in lust with the boat after having been on it twice for many hours.

I might approach the decision slightly differently. I sense you are satisfied with build quality and efficacy for your intended purpose. So you're perhaps really only worried about the consequences of a decision to buy.

What about the consequences of a decision to not buy?

"Sometime in the next seven or eight years you will have to sell Adagio."

Well, what if life deals you a crap shoot and you're not around in 7-8 years? What's it worth to at least enjoy some years now while you can?

Or... what will be your regrets, somewhere down the pike? Will you always be disappointed in yourself because you didn't even reach for the brass ring when you had a chance?

I can't guide your choice, but I can tell you life events have given me an appreciation for the irrational... er... perhaps less rational... or perhaps I mean "who cares if it's rational?" options when they're available.

FWIW, if the boat fit my criteria and I had the $$$, I'd just buy it and go sailing. Whatever happens, happens... but you'll have had a great ride in the meantime.

-Chris
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Old 27-02-2015, 16:04   #25
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

If the boat is (still) as good as it looks on th epics, she could be worth 450-470.000 USD, not more. You will definately have to spend a min. of 20-30.000 USd.
If I was 67 (I am close anyway) I wouldn't be too much concerned about the resale value. I agree with Chris, if you like the boat make an offer at 450 K..
I assume what Lerouge designs are all about; low payload, excellent sailing performance, relatively less volumes for a 51 cats.
Just to compare, with a suggested price you can buy a brand new 44 ft Helia which will provide almost similar volume , even a flybridge, but will sail slower..

Good luck

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Old 27-02-2015, 16:18   #26
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

She is big also. I'm looking at a similar sized cat (only because of some strange circumstances), and the haul out options are much more limited.... I'd love to stay around 44 feet.

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Old 27-02-2015, 16:54   #27
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
I might approach the decision slightly differently. I sense you are satisfied with build quality and efficacy for your intended purpose. So you're perhaps really only worried about the consequences of a decision to buy.

What about the consequences of a decision to not buy?

"Sometime in the next seven or eight years you will have to sell Adagio."

Well, what if life deals you a crap shoot and you're not around in 7-8 years? What's it worth to at least enjoy some years now while you can?

Or... what will be your regrets, somewhere down the pike? Will you always be disappointed in yourself because you didn't even reach for the brass ring when you had a chance?

I can't guide your choice, but I can tell you life events have given me an appreciation for the irrational... er... perhaps less rational... or perhaps I mean "who cares if it's rational?" options when they're available.

FWIW, if the boat fit my criteria and I had the $$$, I'd just buy it and go sailing. Whatever happens, happens... but you'll have had a great ride in the meantime.

-Chris

That's a pretty good way to look at things, provided you don't end up penniless at 80 and live to 105.

That could be a pretty crappy 25 yrs. A long time to think about some irrational purchase that broke the bank and landed you in a state run nursing home.

Now if you can afford to throw away $500k and still have plenty left over, then I'd vote the same way!
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Old 27-02-2015, 17:22   #28
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"Well, what if life deals you a crap shoot and you're not around in 7-8 years? What's it worth to at least enjoy some years now while you can?

Or... what will be your regrets, somewhere down the pike? Will you always be disappointed in yourself because you didn't even reach for the brass ring when you had a chance?

I can't guide your choice, but I can tell you life events have given me an appreciation for the irrational... er... perhaps less rational... or perhaps I mean "who cares if it's rational?" options when they're available.

FWIW, if the boat fit my criteria and I had the $$$, I'd just buy it and go sailing. Whatever happens, happens... but you'll have had a great ride in the meantime."


The statements above pretty much summarize my entire approach to a life, which has been non-conventional and stretching the limits since I was a teenager. By the time I started high school I had attended seven different schools in five states and have been traveling like that ever since then.

I owned a small international consulting business in a very narrow and esoteric area of computer science that allowed me to work only 12 days a month and retire at age 52 to become a full time sailor. I worked in 25 different countries on every continent except Antarctica.

I've done serious mountaineering, high angle rock climbing, motorcycle racing, sailboat racing. I owned a sailboard shop and was one of the first big wind sailboard sailors in the Columbia Gorge. The board shop did not lose money but was a lot of work over quite a few years for not much money... and it gave me unlimited access to a lot of really cool high tech sailboard equipment.

And that is what scares my wife - I am willing to take big risks because I never, ever, wanted to look back and say "I wish I'd done...." She knows I can take some real flyers on crazy stuff that others are convinced are dumb and she does not want this boat purchase to be one of those dumb things. My wife has a very long and detailed memory about some of my prior silly ideas.

Now,I'll get the boat of my dreams IF I can find someone here to convince her that a big, fast cat, with lots of AirCon, trash compactor, separate clothes washer and dryer, and four refrigerators/freezers is the answer to the questions she has not yet asked

Thanks for the comments. What I have learned is:

- there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the design or build
- there is a very small market for big custom catamarans
- there is almost no market on the US West coast for those boats
- there is a price at which the boat is worth buying
- I just need to see if the price I am willing to pay is high enough for the seller to sell to me
- We will lose money on the boat when we sell it
- We will lose even more money on the boat over the years we have to operate it
- We will be very limited in the locations the boat can be hauled
- The safe and conservative catamaran answer is Lagoon (I'd opt for Catana)

Did I get most of that correct?
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Old 27-02-2015, 17:30   #29
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"Well, what if life deals you a crap shoot and you're not around in 7-8 years? What's it worth to at least enjoy some years now while you can?

Or... what will be your regrets, somewhere down the pike? Will you always be disappointed in yourself because you didn't even reach for the brass ring when you had a chance?

I can't guide your choice, but I can tell you life events have given me an appreciation for the irrational... er... perhaps less rational... or perhaps I mean "who cares if it's rational?" options when they're available.

FWIW, if the boat fit my criteria and I had the $$$, I'd just buy it and go sailing. Whatever happens, happens... but you'll have had a great ride in the meantime."


The statements above pretty much summarize my entire approach to a life, which has been non-conventional and stretching the limits since I was a teenager. By the time I started high school I had attended seven different schools in five states and have been traveling like that ever since then.

I owned a small international consulting business in a very narrow and esoteric area of computer science that allowed me to work only 12 days a month and retire at age 52 to become a full time sailor. I worked in every continent except Antarctica and 25 different countries.

I've done serious mountaineering, high angle rock climbing, motorcycle racing, sailboat racing. I owned a sailboard shop and was one of the first big wind sailors board sailors in the Columbia Gorge.

And that is what scares my wife - I am willing to take big risks because I never, ever, wanted to look back and say "I wish I'd done...." She knows I can take some real flyers on crazy stuff that other are convinced are dumb and she does not want this boat purchase to be one of those dumb things.

I was, about 30-years ago, one of the premier owners and disseminators of Simmental Bull Semen anywhere in the world. That project cost us a fortune and almost landed us in jail when our salesman went to Pakistan to sell the Bull Sperm. He returned with not cash, but a large quantity of Pakistan's other favorite agricultural export. US Customs was not amused... and my wife has a very long and detailed memory about some of my prior silly ideas.

Now,I'll get the boat of my dreams IF I can find someone here to convince her that a big, fast cat, with lots of AirCon, trash compactor, separate clothes washer and dryer, and four refrigerators/freezers is the answer to the questions she has not yet asked

Thanks for the comments. What I have learned is:

- there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the design or build
- there is a very small market for big custom catamarans
- there is almost no market on the US West coast for those boats
- there is a price at which the boat is worth buying
- I just need to see if the price I am willing to pay is high enough for the seller to sell to me
- We will lose money on the boat when we sell it
- We will lose even more money on the boat over the years we have to operate it
- We will be very limited in the locations the boat can be hauled
- The safe and conservative catamaran answer is Lagoon (I'd opt for Catana)

Did I get most of that correct?
Im in my 50s, and my physical abilities are not as they were. With a large Cat, regardless of the electric this and the electric that, how will your wife manage to bring it back on her own if you have an incident onboard?

One of my clinic drs is in his late 60s and has a large yacht. He does not go out now unless his son or Sailing Club friends go with him.......... its the bane of his life getting it all together for a weekend. He tells me that if he thinks about going on his own with his wife, he mentally cant face the prospect. The boat will be for sale in due course and he and I will go looking at a couple of mid 30 foot Cats in May for him.

Best of luck with your decision.
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Old 27-02-2015, 17:31   #30
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

If it makes her feel any better, I don't think anybody makes money on a boat. It is a loss for everyone, just a question of how much of a loss. It's not an investment or real estate that 'depreciates' and then you sell it for more than you bought it for. It really does depreciate. Any boat. Not just this one.

I'm looking at a 1995 model, and wondering if it is too old. When I go to sell it in 15 years it will be a 35 year old boat...

And I mean financial loss, because almost to a sailor, I'd say everyone here is willing to trade those dollars for the life only obtainable on said boat. In that way, it is truly an investment in really the only thing that matters... the days we have left.

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