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Old 08-03-2015, 10:01   #256
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"btw for retiree there is a 0% taxe income in portugal for a period of 10 years...just thought it might interest you tacomasailor"

I spent a couple weeks in Lisbon and loved it. I walked down to the waterfront every afternoon and was impressed with how friendly the folks were.

However, the US government will continue to grab our tax money no matter where we try to hide.
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Old 08-03-2015, 17:27   #257
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Well personally, we feel that life is for Living, here in Aus Boats are not selling very fast either, every one is feeling the insecurity of Governments and Bad economies, we have been trying to sell our Cat, so we could buy a slightly larger one, for a bit more room and comfort, not Happening, we believe in what is, is, and we also know that we have to focus on our Happiness each Moment, remember, we can only ever live in the Now, 5years from now who knows what will be Happening, Life is for living, Why Worry, about Formulations, if we do that nothing of any true value to us would ever get done, Enjoy. Cheers Baz, From Australia.


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Old 08-03-2015, 20:35   #258
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

+1


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Old 08-03-2015, 21:42   #259
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

As long as this thread is going on indefinitely, time to add a platitude or two....but a really good one: You can always make more money, but you can't make more time.
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Old 08-03-2015, 23:15   #260
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
cwjohm

I am a spreadsheet guy and have built some monsters. My favorite, for this situation, is one I have been improving for 25 years. It can model any financial, economic, forecasting situation one can imagine. There are hundreds of input parameters and dozens of analyses. I can model any possible situation my wife can imagine. She knows and understands the model.

The intangible most important to my wife is security and predictability. Above all else she wants to be sure she knows where we will be, from a financial perspective, in eight or so years.
Maybe your spreadsheet is too complex...

You have clearly defined your needs and wants. Your issue is making the decision.

One thing that might help is leveraging what is called the house of quality.

On the Y axis add all your needs and wants. Make sure you don't confound things and that as much as possible the wants are not binomial (Yes/No)

- Example - Has electric winches. Better electric winches, two speed winches or single speed winches.
- Font opening fridge - OK maybe that has to be bi-nomial but avoid it.
- Buying price - expected
- Selling price - expected
- Speed

You get the idea. Then in column B add a low (3) medium (6) high (9) multiplier for "importance" - Front opening fridge might be a 9. Electric winches might be a 3.

Then on the X axis list the boats. Under each boat score them 1 through 5 on how well they meet the criteria.

You guys have worked very hard for your money and you don't want to lose it. But you also don't want a boat that is going to be on the market for a year "after" you are done.

Your question - "Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?"

You know the answer already. It's a special high ticket item with a limited number of buyers. And/or something else is wrong.

If preservation of capital and predictable resale value is your key driver the give up on this boat and buy a lagoon - seriously.

Also I am getting a weird vibe on this boat - unfounded probably. Lots of recent engine maintenance etc. on a boat that is not getting used?

Time on market can also be a killer for a boat. Take this one for instance. On the market for a long time and people start getting suspicious.

Sort of like, Why is that 30-something woman never married. Is she a psycho or something?
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Old 09-03-2015, 00:36   #261
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Timing is a tricky thing in deals like this. I had hoped to let the seller wait a while so he could appreciate the market value of his boat.

In late January I had made an offer with some timing issues the seller did not like and he wanted a higher price than I offered to pay. However, my January offer was for quite a bit more than the one rejected in late summer 2014. After the January rejection - I told the seller I would work on the timing and consider a higher purchase offer.

I waited until this weekend to try again with an immediate all cash deal and a much higher price.

Today, Sunday March 8, I was told the seller would donate the boat to a sailing charity rather than accept any more offers like he received last summer and the one I presented about five weeks ago. He did not want to hear my new offer but the broker is going to try anyway.

It is curious because my cash offer would be far superior to the tax write off.
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Old 09-03-2015, 00:41   #262
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Run TS, Run...

This guy doesn't wanna sell. God is speaking to you. Listen to him...

I did not know you made an offer previously that was rejected.

To stereotype this guy he seems typical of the "haves." They aren't used to losing and they have money. And rather than let a "have not" benefit from his "loss" he'll donate the boat. He has serious money to throw away too. You said his nut is $2.8k a month minimum - chump change for him.
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Old 09-03-2015, 02:17   #263
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Well, if he donates it to some charity, they will likely sell it on. Not so many charities really want to own catamarans... so you should try to find out which folks get the donation. Then, after they try to sell it at the exaggerated value that the owner has put upon it (max the deduction, of course), perhaps they, with no real skin in the game, will accept a reasonable offer.

Maybe.

This chap sounds like a dickhead owner, possibly with too much ego involved where his brain belongs. Doesn't sound promising to me, no matter what you decide about ownership of the cat.

Cheers,

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Old 09-03-2015, 03:04   #264
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Yes I agree he does sound like a bit of a Dick head.
Lousy,
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:16   #265
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pirate Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
I've posted several questions about a larger Lerouge cat we want to purchase and have received a lot of very good information from members here.

My wife and I have now decided we really do want to buy the boat:

51ft Lerouge Catamaran - Price Reduced! - Eric Lerouge design combines luxury ... - SeaBoats

BUT - my wife is the sensible one and keeps asking one very disturbing question:

Adagio seems to be a beautiful, well made and carefully maintained boat. It is for sale at a very reasonable price. SO - why hasn't anyone purchased her during the three years she has been for sale here in San Diego?

She then follows up with the next question that is the show stopper:

You (me - the old tired sailor) are 67 years old with bad knees. Sometime in the next seven or eight years you will have to sell Adagio. Who will buy her if it took three years for us to decide to buy her?

What answer does this esteemed group of catamaran enthusiasts have to my wife's two tough question?

She is very concerned we will never be able to sell Adagio if we buy her and sail to Florida. She worries we will be stuck with the operating cost of a 51' x 28' catamaran forever.

Why hasn't Adagio sold here in San Diego despite the price dropping every year?
At 67 who gives a damn about 'Logic'...? your a long time dead and the tick tocks getting louder...
I've lived my life like that in the main.. good times and bad.. its not the amount of money you die with but the experiences and friends you've accumulated..
and to be honest if you can afford to buy and cruise this with no financial scrimping and scraping..
WTF are you fretting about.. get yourself a velcro free wallet



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Old 09-03-2015, 06:09   #266
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I dont think calling the owner names is particularly productive or accurate. He's just a guy like you and me that has a boat to sell and a price he wants for it. His price is pretty clearly stated in the for sale ad so why abuse him for not accepting lower offers? Donating to charity..maybe just the broker doing his job fending off the tyre kickers or the owner. Either way it's his boat and his choice what he will sell it for. In the past when I have sold boats I've entertained serious offers at up to 20% less than asking price by countering with a 5% less option to come to some kind of middle ground. Any less than that and I've politely suggested the buyer look at some other yachts closer to their budget..
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Old 09-03-2015, 07:01   #267
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Depending on his tax bracket donating the boat nets like 20% of the declared value?

Anyway, no time to talk. I gotta go finish my charitable foundation registration application...


TS. Call me in a few weeks. I may have a boat you'll like.
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Old 09-03-2015, 07:11   #268
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Depending on his tax bracket donating the boat nets like 20% of the declared value?
Could be much worse. The rules changed a few years ago so that any deduction is based on the amount the charity itself receives when they sell it.

Fair market value deduction can only be taken if the charity actually uses the boat as part of their mission. I don't know too many charities that would be using a boat like this one as part of their mission.

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Old 09-03-2015, 09:29   #269
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Timing is a tricky thing in deals like this. I had hoped to let the seller wait a while so he could appreciate the market value of his boat.

In late January I had made an offer with some timing issues the seller did not like and he wanted a higher price than I offered to pay. However, my January offer was for quite a bit more than the one rejected in late summer 2014. After the January rejection - I told the seller I would work on the timing and consider a higher purchase offer.

I waited until this weekend to try again with an immediate all cash deal and a much higher price.

Today, Sunday March 8, I was told the seller would donate the boat to a sailing charity rather than accept any more offers like he received last summer and the one I presented about five weeks ago. He did not want to hear my new offer but the broker is going to try anyway.

It is curious because my cash offer would be far superior to the tax write off.
The original statement was correct. It's not selling because the price is too high and he hasn't come to that realization yet...or is it...

Offering to give it to charity is just a bluff, nothing more. Don't read too much into it.

You love this boat and he knows it. You made two offers and told him you have more money available. As long as he's in a good financial position, of course he's going to hold out for the higher offer. You just proved to him (true or not) that the boat is worth what he is asking.

The price won't come down until it sits long enought for him to feel the real price. As long as he keeps getting offers for ever higher amounts, he will sit tight and bluster.
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:03   #270
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"The price won't come down until it sits long enought for him to feel the real price. As long as he keeps getting offers for ever higher amounts, he will sit tight and bluster."

The boat has been for sale for over four years - thus my original question.

I can find old ads and listings from back then for $1.2M on the US East coast. Over the next three years the offering price dropped to $875K, $650K, and finally $525K.

I think the market has spoken very clearly about the value it assigns to the boat.

My understanding, which is limited and based on 2nd hand reports, is the charity will keep the boat and use it in a educational program.

IRS regulations allow deduction of "fair market value" deduction up to 50% of the taxable income. That value is established by a NAMS or other licensed/certified appraiser in a written and notarized letter to the IRS. The top federal IRS tax rate is 39.5% and is 12% in California. Therefore, the maximum deduction could be 51.5% of the established value. And, on that basis I think my offer was worth a lot more than the tax write off, which to my non-attorney/account mind, would have to be less than the current offering price.

"Any less than that and I've politely suggested the buyer look at some other yachts closer to their budget.."

That is a curious statement to make. If the only two offers received over a four year period are 30% below offering price - then I would suspect the offering price is a bit too high. Are you saying any owner can set any price they wish, no matter what the market will pay, and you will only accept offers near the otherwise ridiculous offering price?

Doesn't seem realistic to me!
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