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Old 05-03-2015, 09:13   #211
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"Whats the problem?
And so this tread goes on..."


I wasn't aware there is a problem?

I hope I have not offended the kind contributors to this thread by not rushing out to purchase a 1/2 Million Dollar:

- Brazzapi
- Lagoon
- Leopard
- Fountain Pajeot
- Shionning
- Grainger

The original question has been well discussed and I got a lot of good information. I appreciate the suggestions about other boats, how to negotiate a boat purchase, and how to interact with my wife of 40-years.

I think I've received all the guidance I need.
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:17   #212
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

So worst case....you sell her for $100K-$150 LESS than you bought her for....
At that price she would sell faster and is that too much for 10yrs of living the dream.

Or how about you give her away after 10yrs.

That's $50K per year for living the dream.
Look at it that way, then anything you sell her for $100K, $200K is just money back as a bonus.

To me, considering resale value in a boat purchase negates what a boat is, as Jack Sparrow said...."Freedom".
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:36   #213
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"To me, considering resale value in a boat purchase negates what a boat is, as Jack Sparrow said...."Freedom"."

Exactly! I could not agree more but not everyone sees boats with the same loving eyes. Some see a boat as a hole in the water where money sinks quickly away, never to be seen again.

It does not matter that homes, (when you take a very detailed look at maintenance, interest, taxes, insurance, opportunity cost, inflation they need to appreciate at 10% annually to break even) are just a smaller and less obvious money pit - they are more commonly accepted as 'good things' in our current society.

Boats are an expression of freedom and the desire to do and see more in life - at a substantial financial cost.

Enough navel gazing!
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Old 05-03-2015, 11:23   #214
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Not to beat a dead horse but what is the opportunity cost of not living the dream now. Some folks have more time than money and can afford to look around for the perfect price and perfect boat. Other folks have more money than time and are able to get their dream boat right now even if waiting might result in a lower price.

How much is it worth to an almost 70 year old to add another year to the front end of their cruising adventure when they will probably be in better shape than in later years.

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Old 05-03-2015, 12:05   #215
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"Not to beat a dead horse but what is the opportunity cost of not living the dream now."

I am not sure that horse was in the race or even existed.

The opportunity cost I was thinking about was the substantial down payment one must make on a shoreside home in the new lending environment. My understanding is that most residential lenders want a 20% down payment.

Given a 6% (net of inflation) RoR - a $500,000 house (that is a cheap starter home here in San Diego) would need to appreciate at $6,000 / year just to offset the money you could make on the down payment.

Our current, pre-Adagio, opportunity is to take off again on our very nice Caliber 40. No change, no disruption to our current life, and continued operation of maintenance of a boat we know very well.
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:10   #216
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

The mooring I'm living aboard on in Morro Bay looks up at MultiMillion dollar homes. I could buy a $500K luxury Cat and live for a fraction of what it would cost here on land with a much better view and the ability to get the hell out when the meltdown comes and sneak off to Mexico.

Boat living is Cheap living my friends when the cost of dirt living is through the roof in expensive California. But then again it is 70 degs here with no snow today, so you gotta pay for the weather!
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:32   #217
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Maybe as the answer to the initial question seems to have been answered (price being too high).. another angle may be to think..
How would YOU feel if it DID sell to someone else? How would you feel aboard your FP/Lagoon (or whatever your decision planning spreadsheet decided was the most financially efficient purchase to make) when it cruised past you at greater speed looking resplendent in the sun?
How would your wife feel watching you drool over lost dreams whilst aboard something plainly less emotional for you?
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Old 05-03-2015, 19:00   #218
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I am reminded of the story about the guy who knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Sure different folks put different values on the same thing. How much value do you put on cruising on a sail boat as opposed to cruising on a motor boat, or on a 55 ft cat as opposed to a 35 ft cat, or a fast 50 footer as opposed to a 50 foot cat that is really a dog. Most importantly how much longer do you have to go cruising and what are you missing by waiting.

These are all questions you have to decide for yourself.

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Old 05-03-2015, 19:23   #219
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
I am reminded of the story about the guy who knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

The contrary is true.

He has made up his mind, but he knows precisely the value his wife brings to his life, and he is not going to buy a boat without convincing her, which by the sounds of it, is unlikely.

Sounds like a man with the right priorities to me.
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Old 05-03-2015, 19:26   #220
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
I am reminded of the story about the guy who knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Sure different folks put different values on the same thing. How much value do you put on cruising on a sail boat as opposed to cruising on a motor boat, or on a 55 ft cat as opposed to a 35 ft cat, or a fast 50 footer as opposed to a 50 foot cat that is really a dog. Most importantly how much longer do you have to go cruising and what are you missing by waiting.

These are all questions you have to decide for yourself.
It seems some of the participants in this discussion have forgotten that we live on a beautiful 40' cutter that is ready to head off for a cruise anywhere in the world. She has served us faithfully over a lot of miles from Canada to Mexico in the last 20-years,and is in perfect condition to head off on another cruise.

We will not have to postpone or delay our cruise if we choose to stay on our current boat. In fact, we could leave tomorrow if we wanted.

The question to answer is:

- cruise on a great boat we know, love, and trust and will hold it's value for many years
-or-
- buy something really different and learn how to cruise on it and figure out what it is worth at some point in the future
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Old 05-03-2015, 19:40   #221
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
It seems some of the participants in this discussion have forgotten that we live on a beautiful 40' cutter that is ready to head off for a cruise anywhere in the world. She has served us faithfully over a lot of miles from Canada to Mexico in the last 20-years,and is in perfect condition to head off on another cruise.

We will not have to postpone or delay our cruise if we choose to stay on our current boat. In fact, we could leave tomorrow if we wanted.

The question to answer is:

- cruise on a great boat we know, love, and trust and will hold it's value for many years
-or-
- buy something really different and learn how to cruise on it and figure out what it is worth at some point in the future

So with an answer like this why even start the thread?
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Old 05-03-2015, 19:40   #222
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I have noticed that some times, life comes to a fork, where one can take either a fun and adventurous path, with some risks, or a safe and predictable path, which will be a bit dull.
I'm taking the fun direction every time, almost out of principle now ... and am happy to face the consequences.
It has brought me to some incredible moments, places and people... and I have no regrets.
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Old 05-03-2015, 19:50   #223
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zven View Post
I have noticed that some times, life comes to a fork, where one can take either a fun and adventurous path, with some risks, or a safe and predictable path, which will be a bit dull.
I'm taking the fun direction every time, almost out of principle now ... and am happy to face the consequences.
It has brought me to some incredible moments, places and people... and I have no regrets.
Ö..

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Old 05-03-2015, 20:16   #224
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

When my parents were about your age they bought some land in a nice seaside town where they should have built a home that was modern and stylish by today's standards. They didn't, they built a home in the style they liked which, being 70ish, was pretty outdated but comfortable for them, unlike the more architectural examples in the neighbourhood. 10 years later they sold the home for a decent price, but not nearly as much as for what it would of sold for had they built a more contemporary design, the market wasn't there for an older style, comfortable home. Still they found a farmer who sold up his property and wanted to retire to the seaside.
You are in pretty much the same situation. There will be less of a market for a 50ft 23yr old cat in 10yrs time and the selling price will reflect that, as against purchasing a modern design newer cat. The reason it hasn't sold is because most sensible buyers with 500k to spend are looking at the bottom line when they make buying decisions. The bottom line is in favour of newer production cats, as it is do real estate, cars etc. thanks to innovative modern designs that attract the majority of the market.
I can't imagine asking for advice publicly on something I thought of as my dream boat,, I would be keeping it as quiet as possible for fear of someone snafflling it before I got my ass into gear to make an offer.
Seriously, make an offer, buy the boat if you want it. If you really need to fill something in your spreadsheet, take a look at similar size 23yr old well equipped cats, check the asking price difference and assume that's going to be the selling price in 10 years time. Put if in a spreadsheet and if you and your wife can't live with dropping 20 boat bucks a year then stick with your 40' mono that you feel safe with.
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Old 05-03-2015, 20:19   #225
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
So with an answer like this why even start the thread?
As I mentioned 27 posts ago:

"What answer does this esteemed group of catamaran enthusiasts have to my wife's two tough question?

She is very concerned we will never be able to sell Adagio if we buy her and sail to Florida. She worries we will be stuck with the operating cost of a 51' x 28' catamaran forever.

Why hasn't Adagio sold here in San Diego despite the price dropping every year?
"

I was not initially asking for advice about buying a boat or advice about choosing to cruise or not to cruise - I was asking why this PARTICULAR custom, unique boat had not sold in three years despite the price dropping by almost 100%.

I appreciate the information and suggestions about other boats and how to buy this boat BUT my real interest was to hear from knowledgeable and experienced BIG catamaran owners and brokers about the particular boat and its value now and in the future.
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