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Old 04-03-2015, 19:46   #196
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I'm beginning to think that the OP might be the owner, trying to generate interest in his cat! Then again, as a fair warning, I have had a bit of rum......


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Old 04-03-2015, 19:51   #197
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Almost 200 posts and nothing solved. There have been a few people that have posted cats that are approximately the same price, size and performance level but the op hasn't commented on these. Instead he's commented on a boat like a Lagoon which isn't even close to the same class as the LeRouge. I think this thread is a lost cause.


and

"I'm beginning to think that the OP might be the owner, trying to generate interest in his cat! Then again, as a fair warning, I have had a bit of rum......"

You might note that 197 posts ago the OP asked:

BUT - my wife is the sensible one and keeps asking one very disturbing question:

Adagio seems to be a beautiful, well made and carefully maintained boat. It is for sale at a very reasonable price. SO - why hasn't anyone purchased her during the three years she has been for sale here in San Diego?

She then follows up with the next question that is the show stopper:

You (me - the old tired sailor) are 67 years old with bad knees. Sometime in the next seven or eight years you will have to sell Adagio. Who will buy her if it took three years for us to decide to buy her?

What answer does this esteemed group of catamaran enthusiasts have to my wife's two tough question?

She is very concerned we will never be able to sell Adagio if we buy her and sail to Florida. She worries we will be stuck with the operating cost of a 51' x 28' catamaran forever.

Why hasn't Adagio sold here in San Diego despite the price dropping every year?


I did not ask for advice about what boat to buy - I asked about why such a lovely, functional, and well maintained boat had not sold in more than two years.

I do appreciate the advice and suggestions and I have enjoyed the conversation but the original question was about the current and future salability (sp?) of the boat of our dreams.

Now that we have arrived at this point - who can convince my wife to make an offer on Adagio? You've convinced me to try to close the deal with Adagio's owner (I just came back from another walk by and extended ogling with lust in my heart) but I have to close the deal with the wife first.
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Old 04-03-2015, 20:13   #198
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post

and

"I'm beginning to think that the OP might be the owner, trying to generate interest in his cat! Then again, as a fair warning, I have had a bit of rum......"

You might note that 197 posts ago the OP asked:

BUT - my wife is the sensible one and keeps asking one very disturbing question:

Adagio seems to be a beautiful, well made and carefully maintained boat. It is for sale at a very reasonable price. SO - why hasn't anyone purchased her during the three years she has been for sale here in San Diego?

She then follows up with the next question that is the show stopper:

You (me - the old tired sailor) are 67 years old with bad knees. Sometime in the next seven or eight years you will have to sell Adagio. Who will buy her if it took three years for us to decide to buy her?

What answer does this esteemed group of catamaran enthusiasts have to my wife's two tough question?

She is very concerned we will never be able to sell Adagio if we buy her and sail to Florida. She worries we will be stuck with the operating cost of a 51' x 28' catamaran forever.

Why hasn't Adagio sold here in San Diego despite the price dropping every year?


I did not ask for advice about what boat to buy - I asked about why such a lovely, functional, and well maintained boat had not sold in more than two years.

I do appreciate the advice and suggestions and I have enjoyed the conversation but the original question was about the current and future salability (sp?) of the boat of our dreams.

Now that we have arrived at this point - who can convince my wife to make an offer on Adagio? You've convinced me to try to close the deal with Adagio's owner (I just came back from another walk by and extended ogling with lust in my heart) but I have to close the deal with the wife first.

The point of posting details of the other boats was to give you a reference to the asking prices of similar boats. I would suggest you find a good broker(hard to find:-)) and go over the comps.
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Old 04-03-2015, 20:17   #199
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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., and replace "consumables" (which includes sails), but far less than $16K/month.

Dave
Ya....and saildrives....
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Old 04-03-2015, 20:47   #200
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

A boat is not an investment, it's a passion.


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Old 04-03-2015, 22:02   #201
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"The point of posting details of the other boats was to give you a reference to the asking prices of similar boats. I would suggest you find a good broker(hard to find:-)) and go over the comps."

We have a greater broker

- sailor for over 40-years
- long distance cruiser in catamarans
- professional captain on three different catamarans
- successful owner of a racing catamaran
- California broker for over 20-years
- has personally bought and sold six catamarans for his own use

We have spent dozens of hours looking at everything on the market and do know the comps pretty well.

But, I'm always ready to entertain new suggestions.
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Old 04-03-2015, 22:05   #202
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I'm struggling to think what else you've got to consider to be honest.

I'm wondering if you're headed into the dreaded...

da NA!

ANALYSIS PARALYSIS!

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Old 04-03-2015, 22:10   #203
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"ANALYSIS PARALYSIS!"

And how do we escape?
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Old 04-03-2015, 22:27   #204
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

The problem is not analysis paralysis, or the boat. The problem is the amount you (or more correctly your wife) perceive you will lose on the boat on resale. This concern is very real, and you are right to be concerned, but it can be reduced to real numbers based on realistic assumptions.


Based on what you have said the numbers, even in their worst incarnation, are not a problem as they do not threaten your long term lifestyle. The problem seems to be a psychological issue of money foregone.


This is a real problem for anybody no longer working and living off their assets. It applies not only to sailing, but to overseas trips, or any luxury good. I believe the trick is to attempt to impute some value in the intangible, this being determined by the fact that we are mere mortals and our life spans are limited. By way of extreme example if you are 90 and have a hundred million dollars then you would tend to value intangibles very highly as against real funds. If you are 25 and have $10K in the bank and are saving for a deposit on a house your intangible valuation will be very low.


Unless you wish to sit at a desk and invest your funds so that you are loaded with wealth on the day you die this is the only reasonable approach. It sounds like you and your wife are a little way apart in terms of this intangible valuation. Nevertheless, if you lay all of this out in a spreadsheet at least you can hopefully come to some agreement after discussion as to what constitutes are reasonable loss over time in order to achieve the intangible result you are considering, which after all, will enrich the time you have left.


Accordingly, I would suggest that the answer you and your wife seek would not be found with a broker, but rather with a financial planner well experienced in these sorts of issues of tangible vs intangible life balance.
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Old 04-03-2015, 23:02   #205
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

You are now 67 so if you cruise for 8 years, you will be 75.

Just do rough estimate how much money you need after the cruising, you can probably buy a house with the money you get from the boat.

And as you posted before that you would be able to finance the cruising costs with your investment profits, you would still have those profits coming after the cruising is over.

We only live once and you can't take money with you to the grave.

And if you don't have any kids, you don't need to even consider leaving anything behind.


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Old 04-03-2015, 23:43   #206
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

cwjohm - you have precisely described the situation.

I am a spreadsheet guy and have built some monsters. My favorite, for this situation, is one I have been improving for 25 years. It can model any financial, economic, forecasting situation one can imagine. There are hundreds of input parameters and dozens of analyses. I can model any possible situation my wife can imagine. She knows and understands the model.

The intangible most important to my wife is security and predictability. Above all else she wants to be sure she knows where we will be, from a financial perspective, in eight or so years.

OH - did I mention my wife is 10-years younger than me and that on our third date in October 1974, she made me promise I would out live her?

gixxer - we have no kids nor any family to whom we will leave an estate. We've done the analysis you suggested and she does understand that we will be financially secure given almost any scenario of more expenses and lesser RoR after we buy Adagio.

For some people change is hard. Our current boat is comfortable, safe, and and excellent cruiser. Given my wife's desire to maximize our financial assets and minimize change in her life - purchase of a big, DIFFERENT, catamaran is hard to accept.

My new plan:

- weaken the springs on the two heavily insulated top loader hatches on the refrigerator so they more easily drop on her hands or head

Maybe if she gets banged in the head enough she will buy a new boat?
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Old 05-03-2015, 00:21   #207
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"ANALYSIS PARALYSIS!"

And how do we escape?
You make an offer on Adagio

Then, when he says no, you build an awesome Schionning G-Force 1500C and we all live happily ever after.

Especially if you give me a go on it. Gissa go mister!
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Old 05-03-2015, 00:21   #208
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Almost 200 posts and nothing solved. There have been a few people that have posted cats that are approximately the same price, size and performance level but the op hasn't commented on these. Instead he's commented on a boat like a Lagoon which isn't even close to the same class as the LeRouge. I think this thread is a lost cause.
No, it was solved by the 2nd or 3rd post... The price is too high.

Now we are just trying to figure out if it's such a great boat why the OP hasn't put down a lowball offer to see if the owner bites and then start negotiating from there.

An offer from 6months ago has only a small relationship to an offer today. You hear it all the time where an owner gives up and takes less than an offer he previously refused. Never assume you know the other sides motivations.
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Old 05-03-2015, 00:32   #209
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Of course my post was, at least partially, in jest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
The problem is not analysis paralysis, or the boat. The problem is the amount you (or more correctly your wife) perceive you will lose on the boat on resale. This concern is very real, and you are right to be concerned, but it can be reduced to real numbers based on realistic assumptions.
IMO This is already established. There will be a hit on the boat. Also established is that Adagio will take longer to sell. Exact amounts/time can only really be established at the time; very difficult to predict. You can mitigate this risk by buying a production boat with a completely different set of qualities. ... IMO this does not fit the OPs MO, however only 50% of the decision making equation and it appears to fit the OPs wife's MO. .. we all like a challenge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm
Accordingly, I would suggest that the answer you and your wife seek would not be found with a broker, but rather with a financial planner well experienced in these sorts of issues of tangible vs intangible life balance.
I would agree 100% - the next step is nailing down 50% of the decision equation.

Of course, we're all just throwing 1's and 0's at a website and this is very real for the OP (I wish I had this 'problem')

Whatever you choose, you'll have an awesome time. You can take comfort in that. AS the Isara 45 thread has brought to light - better to go sooner, than worry about how etc.

Me, and I think we have some similarities, I would buy Adagio
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:58   #210
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I dont understand anything either....
You say you have all the money ever needed.
Your wife is afraid of loosing money. And of course, she is right. You will loose money.
Whats the problem?
And so this tread goes on.....
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