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Old 03-03-2015, 01:02   #136
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

G'Day TS,

I know squat about cats, so won't offer gratuitous advice about which one is best for you to buy. But I have been faced with a similar quandary relative to the monohull market that we were operating in when we bought Insatiable II.

All I can say is that the brutal fact is that you will never recoup your expenditures when you sell a boat that you have cruised in for a few years or more. Never. Meanwhile, you have spent several years of your diminishing supply of years to go, sailing (or not even sailing) in a boat that does not twang your heartstrings if you go the most traveled path.

When faced with a similar decision point a decade of so ago, we went with the unique, non-production, one-off work of art that we really wanted. We paid asking price, because we thought it was a fair representation of the value of the boat. No reference to the BUC value because it was unique. We've never felt that this was a mistake, for the boat has lived up to our expectations. We've never envied the folks who spent a similar amount of money for a somewhat larger, newer AWB, with more of the conventional bells and whistles. This is most likely our last big yacht. When the time comes to part with her, we hope to find someone who will appreciate her finer qualities to pass her on to. We may take a fiscal beating, we may not... but we will have had a lot of years enjoying a wonderful boat. How can one balance that quality of life against potential monetary loss?

In one sense, just buying a cruising boat is a fiscal joke. The proverbial hole in the water...
In another sense, if your desire to go sailing in a boat that makes you happy is strong, who cares what the F it costs you... if you can still put beans on the table and a jar of red to share with friends life is still good. None of us can make the decision for you, but at least I can say you can reap such huge benefits from following your heart that the costs, as long as not destructive to your lifestyle, just don't count for much.

I'm sure that the cruising beancounters will flame this attitude. I only know what has worked for me, and hope that our success in the world of special boats will give you some support in your thoughts.

Jim
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:06   #137
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I would simply like to re title your original title to:
Why haven't you bought this beautiful boat yet?
You have had and taken in all the advice good and bad and you are still considering it so like the add says just do it.
Chris
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Old 03-03-2015, 04:36   #138
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Adagio motors faster, on less fuel, at lower RPMs.
Adagio will sail sooner and faster in light winds

Adagio is way more cool, unique, and suits my attitude about life and sailing.

As this discussion continues I am coming more and more to the realization that I need to jump at the chance to buy a nice and unique boat.

FWIW, fuel cost are likely a non-issue, in the grand scheme of things. It's not at all our highest expense item... and if you'll note my avatar, you can see we don't go anywhere without fuel. At our level of fuel expenditure, it's way down the list of costs. At your level of fuel expenditure, peanuts.

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Old 03-03-2015, 04:47   #139
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I'm inclined to agree with Jim for all the reasons he gave. You've found the boat of your dreams--any other boat will always be compared to this one and is likely to be a disappointment. If you can financially do this deal, with full understanding you will be out money at the end of the day, AND not be put in the poorhouse by the overall loss--go ahead and do it.
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Old 03-03-2015, 06:29   #140
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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I dunno from big cats, but I can tell you I'd take the lazy approach if I were currently out west but intending to move SE.

Move. Shop "local." Buy. Climb aboard, go sailing.

Not a recommendation; just the way I'd likely approach it.

-Chris

I need to correct this. Re-reading, I see a line is missing. I meant to say my preferred lazy approach would be either:

Buy the boat you love near you. Climb aboard, go sailing.

Or:

Move. Shop "local." Buy. Climb aboard, go sailing.

-Chris
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:30   #141
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I suspect that the suggestion of the Catana 471 was for three reasons:

1. It is on the west coast.
2. It is likely faster than Adagio.
3. It will likely be easier to re-sell down the road as it is a well-knwon, sought after boat by a respected manufacturer.

There are cheaper 471's on the market (I noticed one listed for 414K in Thailand with 300 hours on the diesels and air for the aft cabins), but it may be worthwhile to compare (and hopefully test-sail) both the Catana and Adagio. Having said that, if your heart is set on Adagio and you are prepared to recognize that the market for her is apt to be smaller when time comes to re-sell her, then go for it!

Brad
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:35   #142
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Your list of objections is very real. To that I add sail drives are to be avoided.

People often want larger boats but that boat and it price puts it in the range where a buyer would rather buy new. They don't consider a used boat a good deal at any price.

Move up buyer who would consider a used boat are probably scared off by it size and all the problems and expense associated with that. People today want reassurance that their boat choice is a good one. With the web providing endless opinions on everything the crowd goes with certain brands regardless of the quality of other makes.

As others have pointed out selling that boat in the future will be difficult, I say near impossible because the cheaper it gets the more overwhelming maintenance costs are to that class of buyer.

To most buyers that boat would be considered too big, at any price.
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:36   #143
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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2. It is likely faster than Adagio.
Highly doubtful
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:38   #144
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Your list of objections is very real. To that I add sail drives are to be avoided.
This discussion is in regards a catamaran, and very few and far between are cats without saildrives. Good luck with that
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:52   #145
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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To that I add sail drives are to be avoided.
Sheese, not again....

Avoided?

Why? Because they capsize?

Individuals may have very sound reasons for having a preference of shaft drives over sail drives and vice versa, but there are no engineering reasons to wholesale "avoid" one or the other.

Dave
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:00   #146
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
I suspect that the suggestion of the Catana 471 was for three reasons:

1. It is on the west coast.
2. It is likely faster than Adagio.
3. It will likely be easier to re-sell down the road as it is a well-knwon, sought after boat by a respected manufacturer.
Hi Brad - I didn't see a reference to a Catana 471, although somebody did discuss a 470, which doesn't exist. He meant either a 47 or a 471/2, which are two different boats entirely.

Regardless, if properly configured, not overloaded, and sailed well, I would expect Adagio to be faster deep off the wind. Upwind would be a different story. I've raced the same Lerouge 50 on two occasions and that was the result. He was the fastest boat in the class downwind, but was way behind us at the top of the course. This is of course a small sample and many variables exist that could result in other outcomes with different boats and crews.

Dave
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:14   #147
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

2Hulls, see my post #130 on the C471 for sale in Cali..
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:19   #148
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Thanks Dave, due to the boards on the Catana I would have expected it to be not only quicker upwind, but with the boards partially retracted, quicker off the wind as well.

Brad
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:35   #149
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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2Hulls, see my post #130 on the C471 for sale in Cali..
OK, thanks. I completely missed that. Something's wrong with that boat to be sitting so low. In some of the pics the bottom paint is not even visible.

Brad - yes, boards up means lower drag. But with light weight and a longer water line, Adagio may make up for the LAR keels deep off the wind. The 50 I raced against was a local SXM day sailor (not cruiser loaded) and we were - and I failed to mention he flew a chute while we opted for more "efficient" sail changes...

Dave
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:52   #150
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

If you want to keep the wife happy and have a boat that is easy to handle and sails well you might want to check out an FP Orana Maestro version. The owners hull on the Orana is unique in that it has a walk around queen size master berth. You won't find another cat in the mid forty foot range with equivalent accomodations.
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