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Old 03-12-2015, 19:55   #766
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by D&D View Post
From so many comments, typically derisive and almost always implying many inferior features and poor sailing ability (all of which we respectfully find wrong) we must assume our L440 is a "condo cat".

That said, we should now say that are yet to go on a sailing vessel with better visibility than the L440, from both anywhere around the vessel and (especially) from its flybridge. The flybridge also places the L440 amoung the best in our knowledge for ease of solo sail trimming, with all lines very handy to the single helm.

We spent ~4 years looking at vessels when we were buying...and we sailed a LOT of different cats. Mindful of the inherent compromises in the process, we developed a fairly thorough checklist. There were lots of great vessels and a few not-so-great, but in the 'visibility' category on our checklist, the L440 was a clear winner.

...and back to OP, we are working hard to try and figure out what those big white things are...
Hogwash!

The know-it-all of sailing has spoken! You have poor visibility from your helm! Your boat has poor upwind sailing performance! And, if you were a real sailor, you would have bought a monohull!

Accept these facts!!!

Oh yeah, and if you ever decide to enter any rally and are not in the front of the pack, you are a poor sailor!



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Old 03-12-2015, 20:00   #767
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Hogwash!

The know-it-all of sailing has spoken! You have poor visibility from your helm! Your boat has poor upwind sailing performance! And, if you were a real sailor, you would have bought a monohull!

Accept these facts!!!

Oh yeah, and if you ever decide to enter any rally and are not in the front of the pack, you are a poor sailor!



We stand suitably chastised ...

...and we beg forgiveness from the real sailors out there ...
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Old 03-12-2015, 20:10   #768
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Old 03-12-2015, 21:25   #769
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Oh yeah, and if you ever decide to enter any rally and are not in the front of the pack, you are a poor sailor!



Not quite. If you're ever in a rally and finish in front of a monohull, it's because you are a BRILLIANT sailor, who overcame the deficiencies of his boat! However if a mono beats you it's because of the boat.

Anyway I prefer condom cat's over condo cat's. All the fun, with no responsibility.
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Old 03-12-2015, 21:52   #770
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Tehehe.........so glad I read this thread, I never would have known......
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Old 04-12-2015, 05:30   #771
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Would that require additional crew to dock this craft?
I watched an Atlantic 57 dock in a marina once. It was required to back into a slip with fingers on each side, and needed a crew on each stern calling directions to the captain at the helm who was not only facing the wrong direction, but couldn't see anything toward the back of the boat at all.

The lack of rearward visibility from the helm of a forward cockpit never occurred to me before that.

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Old 04-12-2015, 06:11   #772
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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We stand suitably chastised ...

...and we beg forgiveness from the real sailors out there ...
AND, if your wife knew how to sail, she would have forbid you buying a catamaran....!
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:03   #773
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by D&D View Post
From so many comments, typically derisive and almost always implying many inferior features and poor sailing ability (all of which we respectfully find wrong) we must assume our L440 is a "condo cat".

That said, we should now say that are yet to go on a sailing vessel with better visibility than the L440, from both anywhere around the vessel and (especially) from its flybridge. The flybridge also places the L440 amoung the best in our knowledge for ease of solo sail trimming, with all lines very handy to the single helm.

We spent ~4 years looking at vessels when we were buying...and we sailed a LOT of different cats. Mindful of the inherent compromises in the process, we developed a fairly thorough checklist. There were lots of great vessels and a few not-so-great, but in the 'visibility' category on our checklist, the L440 was a clear winner.

...and back to OP, we are working hard to try and figure out what those big white things are...
That one I do not understand: There are condo cats and performance cats. The Lagoon 440 is a performance cat?

A condo cat does not sail badly, it sails very well downwind and on a beam reach except in very light winds. It does not sail very well upwind. A performance cat sails well in all points of sail. Regarding a downwind ride like the ARC the performance of condo cats is not far from the one of performance cats.

There are condo cats that sail better than others. That Nautitech 40, even if it does not have dagerboards (but fixed keels) sails so well that I would have some doubts putting it among condo cats. I would say that it is midway between the two types and that is also the opinion that was expressed by some that have tested the boat.

I don't really understand what is your doubt regarding all this.
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:22   #774
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I watched an Atlantic 57 dock in a marina once. It was required to back into a slip with fingers on each side, and needed a crew on each stern calling directions to the captain at the helm who was not only facing the wrong direction, but couldn't see anything toward the back of the boat at all.

The lack of rearward visibility from the helm of a forward cockpit never occurred to me before that.

Mark
Regarding Looking forward the Lagoon 400 can have some problems with sails not allowing forward lateral visibility, specially with big downwind sails.

On other steering positions, on other cats, you can look below the sail to see if the course is clear. No way you would look behind the sail seating on top of the cabin. Great while motoring of for marina maneuvering dough.


Regarding the Atlantic 57 Not ideal but if the two doors are open you have some visibility backwards, regarding the quay or pontoon, but no lateral visibility backwards.

I guess the better solution to provide good forward visibility on the cat, besides the one that uses Nautitech, is the one that is used on Outremer and other performance cats, that puts the pilot just over the hull with a clear vision forward. That solution has not the disadvantages of the one that is used by Chris white in some cats.
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:19   #775
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Regarding Looking forward the Lagoon 400 can have some problems with sails not allowing forward lateral visibility, specially with big downwind sails.
Not a problem, remember the cats motor nearly 100% of the time, so from the top deck they have great visibility nearly 100% of the time

I was looking at the Nautitech 40 review in Yachting World and I think that it could be an acceptable Cat option for me if I ever wanted to go to the dark side. I like the helming position and it would be much much more acceptable to me than what I've seen on most condo cats.
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Old 04-12-2015, 11:47   #776
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I watched an Atlantic 57 dock in a marina once. It was required to back into a slip with fingers on each side, and needed a crew on each stern calling directions to the captain at the helm who was not only facing the wrong direction, but couldn't see anything toward the back of the boat at all.

The lack of rearward visibility from the helm of a forward cockpit never occurred to me before that.

Mark
Pardon me, but why are you ever REQUIRED to back into a slip?
Maybe he chose to do that because he wanted to?
And having help on each stern watching the approach at that point would just be common sense, no? It is a 7 figure $ boat after all. Why play bumper boats if you can easily avoid it. And I imagine that any 57' cat coming into dock is almost never single handed anyway.
No boat does everything perfectly. I'd take an Atlantic 57 over just about any other live aboard cat made!
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:49   #777
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Some cruiser/racers: 16th annual Slocum Spray regatta to be held in June - MySailing.com.au


So how well do these dual purpose mono's sail to windward? (Or any other point of sail for that matter)
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Old 04-12-2015, 13:03   #778
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Pardon me, but why are you ever REQUIRED to back into a slip?
Maybe he chose to do that because he wanted to?
And having help on each stern watching the approach at that point would just be common sense, no? It is a 7 figure $ boat after all. Why play bumper boats if you can easily avoid it. And I imagine that any 57' cat coming into dock is almost never single handed anyway.
No boat does everything perfectly. I'd take an Atlantic 57 over just about any other live aboard cat made!
You either have to back in or out, unless you plan to stay forever.
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Old 04-12-2015, 13:04   #779
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Probably the ultimate visibility would be on an open bridgedeck catamaran. The Maine Cat 41 would be a good example.
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Old 04-12-2015, 15:31   #780
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Regarding the Atlantic 57 Not ideal but if the two doors are open you have some visibility backwards, regarding the quay or pontoon, but no lateral visibility backwards.
Having been on these boats many times, I can assure you that in the daylight with sun beaming down, those windows are as opaque as if they had curtains on them and lining up those doors provides a gun slit view at best.

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