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Old 03-07-2015, 01:23   #61
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
However, I have yet to meet anyone, and I have talked to hundreds, who tell me that they particularly enjoy passages, especially extended passages with overnighters, from place to place. Rather the discussion seems to revolve around the most efficient means to get the boat from A to B so that they can enjoy their next destination.
Talk to us! Both of us particularly enjoy passages, especially night passages. In fact we try to do a lot of sailing in the night, not only because we like it but also its a great way to minimize long sailing days for the kids (for them sailing gets boring after a few hours unless some dolphins join us).

We spent the last season in the greece Ionian sea and that was just 1-3hr island hopping. I very much look forward to this summer when we will do some longer passages on our way towards Spain. Still 2 weeks to go before we take off.
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Old 03-07-2015, 01:30   #62
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I agree with the OP. Their may be a slightly higher % of cats which use engines when sufficient wind is available.

When cruising in my buddies Lagoon 440, I often have to convince him to raise the sails, even though it does sail very well, and with in mast furling, its all too easy.

I'm thinking, in comparison to the average monohull owner, they (or their partner) get less of a buzz out of letting the wind do its thing. They don't enjoy heeling, or the feel of the power of the wind. They just enjoy being out on the water, but enjoy their comfort. And a sailing catamaran is more "romantic" than a power catamaran.

This doesn't apply to all, but it affects the overall percentage.
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Old 03-07-2015, 01:49   #63
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Now, I understand the charter companies and folks who charter wanting to get to locations faster.... I get that. I also appreciate the added acreage on a catamaran... I'm jealous of that and maybe someday will own a Cat.

What I don't get, is then WHY bother with having a sailing rig at all? Why not just buy a powercat and forget about the sails altogether? Seems like it would save some money? But still, a powercat remains the odd cat out, with the vast majority (probably better than 95%) having a sailing rig.

I think the power cats actually look much nicer. Take away the sailing rig, and they're pretty easy on the eyes.
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Old 03-07-2015, 02:06   #64
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Heres my theory!
Catamarans were originally designed with no ballast, relying on the leverage of their beam to avoid capsize, they were thus light and therefore fast, particularly off wind.
Modern catamarans are principally popular because they have massive accommodation potential, but the original principal of lightness and therefore speed has been lost, and for the most part they simply don't sail quickly and can barely tack through 170 degrees. Thus the people that buy, or more particularly hire them don't do it to sail, but to rush from marina to marina. The question in my mind is why, then, do they bother with the massive rig, the motor only options on some of these designs seem much more sensible and presumably much cheaper!
Finally, a wise Frenchman said to me about a Lagoon 40 something, "these boats can sail TO the Caribbean, but they cannot get back, so if you want one cheap!". I don't!
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Old 03-07-2015, 02:33   #65
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

As a cat owner - and not a fast one but a Prout cruising cat from the 70s - I sail everywhere its possible to. I have both an asymmetric and a symmetric spinnaker to make the best use of the light winds from all angles and a good set of well cut white sails for the rest.

However - the Prout has an aft stepped mast so you will often see me sailing under genoa or spinnaker alone as the main is tiny and does very little (perhaps adds half a knot in ideal conditions) - this is perhaps lazy but mean I can keep a boom tent up when its 95 degrees as it is this week and enjoy lots of shade whilst sailing.

I do notice here in the Med though that almost none of the charter cats use sails ever - they also only use full throttle on the engines no matter where they are - even when recovering anchor chain! This says more about the type of people who rent them than the boat.

My friends on a new Lagoon 400 (the most popular charter boat but theirs is private) sail much of the time and report (as will Monte of these parts) that they get very good speeds despite it looking like a brick and can sail at 50 degrees and make very good progress in light airs too. I've been totally converted to sailing merits of the newer Lagoons watching them this last year.

An acquaintance on a Funcat 44 sails in and out of almost every anchorage and we passed him under motor one day (opposite direction so wind was dead on our nose) making about 2 knots under sail in the lightest of winds with just a mile to go to anchor but still he didn't turn on the engine.

In the last year we've racked up about 60 engine hours for around 2800 miles - most of that in and out of anchorages as my wife feels anchoring under sail in the crowded Med is too risky and too scary for those enjoying their evening G&T

In short all most all cats sail very well, maybe not as fast in some situations as a mono but faster in others. Charter crews, in the Med at any rate, seem to be young, inexperienced, packed at least 8 or 10 to a boat and have no idea how to do anything at all - least of all sail. The requirements to charter seem woefully ignored round here - I actually heard the helmsman on a Lagoon the other day shout forward " does that anchor thingy look like its at the bottom yet". The next morning he left the anchorage at 9 knots and full throttle (as in not maximum safe throttle but screaming smoking FULL throttle) giving a yahoo as he set everything else rolling in wash. He was one of the better charter skippers I have seen - and the monohull crowd are no better on charter boats; no sails, drag all the time at anchor, anchor in stupid places and set the cockpit music blasting the moment they stop. However, as most charter boats are now cats it always looks like there are more cats (read Lagoons) doing stupid or lazy things but people who actually own their boat and cruise tend to be rather better at sailing.
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Old 03-07-2015, 03:38   #66
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by Tim Godber View Post
Heres my theory!
Catamarans were originally designed with no ballast, relying on the leverage of their beam to avoid capsize, they were thus light and therefore fast, particularly off wind.
Modern catamarans are principally popular because they have massive accommodation potential, but the original principal of lightness and therefore speed has been lost, and for the most part they simply don't sail quickly and can barely tack through 170 degrees. Thus the people that buy, or more particularly hire them don't do it to sail, but to rush from marina to marina. The question in my mind is why, then, do they bother with the massive rig, the motor only options on some of these designs seem much more sensible and presumably much cheaper!
Finally, a wise Frenchman said to me about a Lagoon 40 something, "these boats can sail TO the Caribbean, but they cannot get back, so if you want one cheap!". I don't!
I guess you are bored and trying to stirr things up a bit

or do you really believe in your "theory"?

In that case I have another bit to add to it: Cat sailors are always afraid of being flipped over in anything above 5kn of wind so we barely raise the sails!
Those actually sailing all have a death wish.


The fact that many boats motor when the weather is OK to sail has most often not much to do with the boat but the mindset of the folk onboard. Cat or not doesn't matter much.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:37   #67
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I'm convinced it's the fact that mono's wallow around if you try to motor in a seaway with no sails up. Mono sailors aren't more purist or better sailors, they just don't want to get sea sick, so they throw up a sail while motoring, so it looks like they sail more.
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Old 03-07-2015, 05:45   #68
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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In that case I have another bit to add to it: Cat sailors are always afraid of being flipped over in anything above 5kn of wind so we barely raise the sails!
Those actually sailing all have a death wish.
You just undid years of therapy. Now I have to start again.......
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:54   #69
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Yeah, cat's just can't sail to windward.

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Old 03-07-2015, 06:59   #70
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

And of course the 30 degrees is right. At 9 knots in 29 knots of breeze, that's probably about 40-45 degree true heading to wind, making it 30 degrees apparent. Just like a monohull, which it should do with a high aspect daggerboard and good sailplan.

No reason cats can't point. They just need to be optimized for sailing, not accomodations.


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Old 03-07-2015, 07:02   #71
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Different priorities. My 34' cat has 2 x queen cabins (household dimensions), but what I would love are kings.

In my mind bigger is not better unless it gets me something I need, since bigger means heavier everything and more work. It's supposed to be vacation!

Agree, different strokes. For us, it's about the pain of changing bed linen. Our current centerline "queen" (isn't really household queen) but it's almost big enough. But we can only walk about 3/5ths of the lower end... and that's up on a raised shelf on the sides... so stripping the bed isn't too bad, but putting on new bottoms sheets sucks.

(Our current trick is to pull the mattress about halfway off the bed platform, start the head of the bottom sheet, slide it all back where it belongs, deal with sides as best we can reach.)

But ideally, I'd prefer a household Sleep Number bed on an articulated platform. And their king version would be even better, with the option for separate articulation.

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Old 03-07-2015, 07:02   #72
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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And of course the 30 degrees is right. At 9 knots in 29 knots of breeze, that's probably about 40-45 degree true heading to wind, making it 30 degrees apparent. Just like a monohull, which it should do with a high aspect daggerboard and good sailplan.

No reason cats can't point. They just need to be optimized for sailing, not accomodations.


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Nonsense!! My goal is a genuine 3 storey catamaran that gets there... (eventually)

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Old 03-07-2015, 07:09   #73
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Agree, different strokes. For us, it's about the pain of changing bed linen. Our current centerline "queen" (isn't really household queen) but it's almost big enough. But we can only walk about 3/5ths of the lower end... and that's up on a raised shelf on the sides... so stripping the bed isn't too bad, but putting on new bottoms sheets sucks.

(Our current trick is to pull the mattress about halfway off the bed platform, start the head of the bottom sheet, slide it all back where it belongs, deal with sides as best we can reach.)

But ideally, I'd prefer a household Sleep Number bed on an articulated platform. And their king version would be even better, with the option for separate articulation.

-Chris
Since when did I sign up to the Martha Stewart household tips forum?😏


Ohhh wait, it's still cruisers forum, just the floating condo section.





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Old 03-07-2015, 07:12   #74
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Since when did I sign up to the Martha Stewart household tips forum?😏
Ohhh wait, it's still cruisers forum, just the floating condo section.
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I think you are excluded from membership or the right to comment by virtue of being..er........ one hull less of a catamaran.

Strangely enough, one of the things I dislike in mono's or Multis, is not being able to walk around a bed and having to climb up from the bottom. Even one side open is an improvement.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:20   #75
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Since when did I sign up to the Martha Stewart household tips forum?��

Ohhh wait, it's still cruisers forum, just the floating condo section.

I learn a lot from hard-core cruisers. But then I also learn a lot from the way we travel on board... and I don't see any need to make cruising, even the mini version that we usually do, any less comfortable than we can make it.

I've shopped on sailing cats for years, but the only one I've seen with the other gotta-have feature -- a full flying bridge -- was ~85' and I didn't have that kinda pocket change on me at the time.



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