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Old 25-11-2015, 14:33   #676
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
And all I was saying was that there are numerous reasons why one would expect to see a large number of cats, especially charter cars, motoring so much. And comparisons of performance between a 49 foot, carbon fibre monohull with a racing cockpit and marginal accomodation with a catamaran that has a comfortable cockpit and much larger and more luxurious interior accomodation doesn't really get us any closer to the answer to the OP's question. It does, however, speak to a bias against catamarans.
Amen. Couldn't agree more.
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Old 25-11-2015, 15:47   #677
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Finally I agree with you. I don't understand what the noise is about, but it is not me that are making it or not sticking with reality. I understand perfectly why most cruisers buy non performance boats, being them monohulls or multihulls and I agree that those boats suit more the sailing and cruising program of the majority.

Regarding sailing, upwind sailing performance is not more important than any other point of sail and I only referred here the poor performance upwind of condo cats because that lead to a bigger engine utilization as it was confirmed by several posters and that has to do with the subject of this thread, in what regards motoring more or less.

I don't see the use of the engine as anything negative in what regards cruising neither I see in a negative way those that use motorboats for cruising. I use sails whenever I can (and I can more than most because my boat sails with very little wind) because I enjoy sailing, including upwind.

It is far from being practical (a motor boat is much more practical) it is a question of pleasure. Some like to cruise, I like to sail and to cruise in equal measure. It is a personal taste. Most would be bored sailing at 4K when they could reach destination much more quickly motoring at 7k. Nothing wrong with that.
That is your opinion. Poor is in the eyes of the individual sailor. Your opinion isn't fact and it doesn't matter, but yet you keep pushing it for some reason. I happen to be very pleased with the upwind sailing performance of my boat.

FWIW, I think a monohull is a very poor choice for my requirements. Non-redundant engine, salon is a dungeon, too much rocking and rolling at anchor, etc. I could go on, but I don't see the need to convince others that my choices are the right ones, why do monohuller's feel the need to do that?
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Old 25-11-2015, 18:23   #678
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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That is your opinion. Poor is in the eyes of the individual sailor. Your opinion isn't fact and it doesn't matter, but yet you keep pushing it for some reason. I happen to be very pleased with the upwind sailing performance of my boat.

FWIW, I think a monohull is a very poor choice for my requirements. Non-redundant engine, salon is a dungeon, too much rocking and rolling at anchor, etc. I could go on, but I don't see the need to convince others that my choices are the right ones, why do monohuller's feel the need to do that?
If you think this is about pushing my personal tastes regarding boats and personal preferences you cannot be more wrong.

As I explained repeatedly the comments regarding the comparatively poor performance upwind of condo cats have only to do with the subject of the thread and motoring more upwind. Nothing more.

I find condo cats excellent proposals for the type of sailors that they are pointed at, offering a global decent sailing performance for a unmatched use of interior and exterior space. They are what they are, as any other type of boats, with advantages and disadvantages that suit different types of sailors and cruisers.

The fact that there are on the market many types of different cruising sailboats means that there are preferences for all of them, otherwise there would not be a market for them.
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Old 25-11-2015, 22:51   #679
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

i was thinking about upwind performance and in most conditions monos will do better.

Then I read a blog about mono guy with wife on circumvigation. They did 4 days upwind in 35 kn somewhere in greece. Wife said enough is enough and had to turn around. They managed to do 10 miles against weather in 4 days.

wife was writing the blog of course.

I hate to think about damage rigging had to sustain.

motor/sail or motor if see rigging stretched, i will choose every time.
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Old 26-11-2015, 07:07   #680
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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i was thinking about upwind performance and in most conditions monos will do better.

Then I read a blog about mono guy with wife on circumvigation. They did 4 days upwind in 35 kn somewhere in greece. Wife said enough is enough and had to turn around. They managed to do 10 miles against weather in 4 days.

wife was writing the blog of course.

I hate to think about damage rigging had to sustain.

motor/sail or motor if see rigging stretched, i will choose every time.
Greece have been on the last years my playground and the conditions there upwind, with 35k wind have nothing to the with the ones you can find in the Atlantic. On a small yacht, like the ones most of us own, you cannot motor upwind against 35k on the short period very steep 3 to 4 meters waves, that kind of wind will create if sustained and on non protected waters.

You could move upwind with the engine but the speed would be ridiculous low and you could not go straight to the waves. The pounding and discomfort would be huge, on a cat or on a mono.

Actually the boat will sail better than motor, being the kind of power generated by a sail on those circumstances bigger than the power a small engine, or two small ones, is able to provide, being also the boat more stable and "tied" to a side, not bouncing around. More directional stability and more control at the wheel.

Nobody that knows those waters would go upwind out of land protection with 35k wind on a small yacht.

Not all cats or all monos are the same in what regards upwind potential. Mine is particularly good and even so with that kind of sea with an apparent wind of 33K (28.3 real) I can do about 6 K at an apparent wind angle of 35 (42 true) making a VMG of 4.46K, sailing solo and not pushing the boat (with a crew and on racing mode I could do better).

Off course under those conditions I am having fun (because I like to sail) but having fun at the wheel for some hours. Certainly it would not be fun for a day (unless I had someone to make turns at the wheel) and definitively tiresome for several days.

However my wife hates it (she gets seasick under those conditions) and certainly the motion of the boat, even if not pounding, is very uncomfortable and it is certainly a wet ride.

I don't deliberately sail into those conditions because I enjoy the company of my wife and certainly she would not come with me if I would made that an habit.

Normally we don't go upwind on the Med, offshore, if the prevision is for more than 20k winds and even for that I have and hard time convincing my wife. Off course, sometimes the previsions fail and we get a lot more than that and that's what my wife fears.

Anything over 15K true is a bit uncomfortable for my wife. That has also to do with the speed of the boat, if you sail even with over 15k upwind doing 5 or 6k or with a bigger wind angle the motion is much more comfortable than going at 7.5K really close to the wind, but the VMG is obviously very different as well as the duration of the passage (the fun of sailing too).

Note that what I am saying has to do exclusively with the Med and type of seas you find here. Nothing to do with the Atlantic were going upwind with 35k can be much less tiresome than going upwind with 20k on the med.
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Old 26-11-2015, 09:16   #681
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Stop


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The


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Old 26-11-2015, 15:31   #682
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Polux, it sounds like your wife would love a cat - even a condo cat if you avoided long upwind passages in boisterous conditions (or chose to motor sail if they arose)! No worries, my wife has the same aversion to sailing upwind on a mono....

Cheers!

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Old 26-11-2015, 16:35   #683
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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amen, Just for fun I post some pics of my Cat going up wind and down wind . I thought that might change the direction but nope
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Old 26-11-2015, 16:39   #684
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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amen, Just for fun I post some pics of my Cat going up wind and down wind . I thought that might change the direction but nope

I enjoyed your pictures, but I also enjoyed the performance monos in Polux's blog.


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Old 26-11-2015, 16:56   #685
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I enjoyed your pictures, but I also enjoyed the performance monos in Polux's blog.


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I was lucky enough to be in St Tropez at the end of Oct for the Voilles de St Tropez .I did not get to see the name but a 100 + foot Wally came screaming down wind hitting the high teens if not more and did a beautiful Gybe 300 yards from where i was sitting . Then a g32 came foiling by on full song (the foils are loud) There where J boats ,Moonbeam was there.
I appreciate it all . Thanks for the kind words about the pics Our club has a professorial photographer as a member .
ps I raced a Searunner 40 for years
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Old 26-11-2015, 17:02   #686
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Polux, it sounds like your wife would love a cat - even a condo cat if you avoided long upwind passages in boisterous conditions (or chose to motor sail if they arose)! No worries, my wife has the same aversion to sailing upwind on a mono....

Cheers!

Brad
No, I am the one that would eventually consider a multihull but not a condo cat. I was particularly impressed with the Dragonfly 35 when it comes out on the market, some years ago (I was looking for a boat then) but the price and my wife made me abandon the idea.

I really have no need for more space than what a Dragonfly 35 offers but my wife needs more storage to feel comfortable and likes more space. That if I manage to convince her: about 10 years ago me and my daughter were caught at night by something weird, a tornado or a micro burst, something with winds out of the scale that laid us flat for several minutes and ripped the main sail from the mast (3rd reef).

Probably that thing would have capsized any cat and my wife knows that. For me, it is no big deal, I guess you caught a thing like that once in a lifetime, even if two years ago we had a big scare with a Tornado that looked as if it was chasing us (Med as a lot of strange unexpected weather anomalies).

Bottom point, not a big deal for me but I am just unable to convince my wife regarding to have a cat and besides that there are money considerations regarding what you get for a given price.

I really think the moneywise what makes more sense are condo cats for the ones that fit the profile for that type of boat. Personally it does not fit mine. i like performance boats and performance multihulls are just to expensive for me and I just don't know if for the price they cost I would not prefer a bigger performance monohull. if I had the money I would have to check it out better, as I don't have it, it is not a problem
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Old 26-11-2015, 17:02   #687
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I was lucky enough to be in St Tropez at the end of Oct for the Voilles de St Tropez .I did not get to see the name but a 100 + foot Wally came screaming down wind hitting the high teens if not more and did a beautiful Gybe 300 yards from where i was sitting . Then a g32 came foiling by on full song (the foils are loud) There where J boats ,Moonbeam was there.

I appreciate it all . Thanks for the kind words about the pics Our club has a professorial photographer as a member .

ps I raced a Searunner 40 for years

I agree, I appreciate it all. We decided to regrettably sell our PDQ 36 this past summer. A great boat but didn't fit into the long term budget. We were lucky to find the Searunner catamaran at a price we could afford even though she needs to be completed.


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Old 26-11-2015, 17:09   #688
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I enjoyed your pictures, but I also enjoyed the performance monos in Polux's blog.
I hope you have liked also the multihull posts

Next one will be about a big new performance cat that I saw the first time this year on the med and let me wonder about the brand. For good reason: new boat on the first test sails. Looked gorgeous...and expensive.
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Old 26-11-2015, 21:42   #689
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I agree, I appreciate it all. We decided to regrettably sell our PDQ 36 this past summer. A great boat but didn't fit into the long term budget. We were lucky to find the Searunner catamaran at a price we could afford even though she needs to be completed.


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I spotted the cat part after I hit send .Is it a Jim Brown /marples constant camber boat?
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Old 27-11-2015, 06:08   #690
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I spotted the cat part after I hit send .Is it a Jim Brown /marples constant camber boat?

Yes, Marples constant camber.


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