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Old 17-11-2015, 05:19   #586
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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This is never true on a sphere, but it is a good approximation for a short distance.

Mark
No a straight line is still the shortest distance...just need that submersable sailboat to make it happen...


...of course in the context of the comment, it was perfectly correct.
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:42   #587
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Very nice sailing. By the plotter you are doing about 8.5/8.7K sog at 27 apparent or so, and i would say that you should have some current helping you. Anyway a very good performance but on almost flat water and it is very rare to have that sea condition with so much wind.
Yes, I think there was about 15 knots of current with us. Or maybe it was 50? Certainly there's no way we were sailing. It's a cat after all.

And given the wind was around 12 knots, yes I would expect 15 - 25 metre seas. I guess that's normal where you sail.

Anyway, we all know cats are completely useless. We have you to constantly remind us.

By way of doing that, how about you post a video of a CRUISING monohull
sailing at higher speeds, at higher angles, in lighter winds, with the huge seas we'd normally associate with such winds?

I'd like to see it.
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:45   #588
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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That is not the point, the point is the difference in price between a condo cat and a performance cat and that is very significant.
Yes, my boat cost significantly less than any similar sized production cat. Or mono.
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:52   #589
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I will be looking at the ARC again to compare the performance of fast performance catamarans with the one of fast performance monohulls on an offshore passage. You are welcomed on the thread that is already opened. Some very fast cats there, including a brand new Outremer 51.
Maybe in Europe an Outremer 51 is a very fast boat. Not so much here.

But I don't think I'll bother with your ARC thread. I see enough of you rubbishing catamarans here in the multihull forum.
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Old 17-11-2015, 13:27   #590
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Outremer used to make two kinds of cats. The usual condo type and a much lighter stripped out version which was a fair bit faster.

They only seem to do condos these days.
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Old 17-11-2015, 17:24   #591
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Outremer used to make two kinds of cats. The usual condo type and a much lighter stripped out version which was a fair bit faster.

They only seem to do condos these days.
We own two (call us crazy) catamarans one of which is an 2003 Outremer 45. Last July we set out for a short sail hard on the wind and against the tide in 20 to 30 knots of wind and a short chop of about 4 to 7 feet. The wind gear was not working but we seemed to be tacking at a little les than 100 degrees. With a double reefed main and a single in the solent we were making about 7 knots to weather which I thought was reasonable and comfortable. The boat is new to me but I think I could got away with a single reef.
I could not point as high as a the 50 foot monohull that was going the same direction but then again he was motoring
Our other cat is a Pdq 36 that was built for us, with my specific requirements. It weighs 8000 lbs without the rig has kevlar sails and carbon dagger boards.
With my best crew we tack through 85 degrees and in about 15 true we do just above 7.5. If I ease off a bit that number gets better.
The best speed I ever got to weather was just over 9, but that was flat water. Best speed ever was 18.3 under chute.
All that said I would rather be motoring
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Old 17-11-2015, 17:53   #592
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Our friends here in Sardinia keep their flower vases and plants out even when underway on their Lagoon 400. That wouldn't work out so well on a monohull. But they also admit to motoring nearly all the time. Why? They live full time on the boat and have all the time in the world to get from place to place.
I was wondering about growing some vegetables on board. Thought nursing some seedlings using hydroponics on one underside of the cabin top. Fresh patatoes, tomatoes and lettuce anyone.
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Old 17-11-2015, 19:24   #593
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Yes, my boat cost significantly less than any similar sized production cat. Or mono.

No doubt in materials, but did you count your labor? Can't imagine your cat is cheaper once you factor in market labor rate for the 1000s of hours you must have spent. Not discounting the money saving aspect, but not an apples to apples comparison for folks without time or skill to self-build.


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Old 17-11-2015, 19:30   #594
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I work for free.
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Old 17-11-2015, 19:32   #595
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I work for free.
I'll pay your airfare and give you room and board😁
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Old 17-11-2015, 19:34   #596
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I think that I do as well when I compare hours vs profit.
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Old 17-11-2015, 19:44   #597
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I'll pay your airfare and give you room and board��
I'll add your name to the list. I hope you don't mind waiting.
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Old 17-11-2015, 20:15   #598
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Yes, I think there was about 15 knots of current with us. Or maybe it was 50? Certainly there's no way we were sailing. It's a cat after all.

And given the wind was around 12 knots, yes I would expect 15 - 25 metre seas. I guess that's normal where you sail.

Anyway, we all know cats are completely useless. We have you to constantly remind us.
...
It is 13k not 12k (considering the plotter speed) and yes where I sail with 13k going fast upwind you have already a wet ride. Short steep waves with about 1.5 meters.

You don't know anything about what I like or not. I like fast boats being them cats or monohulls.

The one with blinds is you not me.

The only reason I do not have a cat is because they are too expensive regarding what they offer and I have not enough money to chose without money considerations.

If I had an unlimited budget this one would be on my short list:


Regarding to know if there is current or not you know as much as I since the log is not working properly, as you admitted, and you only have SOG. There is normal to have always some current, specially near the coast and between Islands or on a coast like it is shown on the plotter.

It can be against or at favor but looking at the sea it does not look that you are going close upwind, the waves don't come from the bow, so I would say that is a favorable one. No, I would not say a 15k current!!! but anything from 0.5k to 1k is quite possible.
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Old 17-11-2015, 20:57   #599
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

The drivel just keeps coming. If there was 1 knot of current against 13 knots of wind, surely that would result in more rather than less waves? You know, wind against tide, that sort of thing? SO, given how calm the water was, wouldn't it make more sense to assume the tide was against us?


Actually, from what I recall, the tide was pretty much slack at the time.


Maybe you get a wet ride, we stay pretty dry. Our fine bows don't generate much spray, even with boatspeeds in the teens.


I realise we weren't going close upwind. Not by your standards anyway. ~28' would be a broad reach for your boat.

I await your video of you sailing at 10 knots in 10 knots at 10' apparent. I mean yours is a performance mono, the ultimate upwind sailing machine, where I have a pile of crap catamaran, which can only move when it is motoring at least 100% of the time.


You should have no difficulty in doing vastly better. Let's see the video. Polars are pretty dry, and generally theoretical anyway. lets see the video.
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Old 17-11-2015, 20:57   #600
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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I'll pay your airfare and give you room and board😁
Beat me to it AJ.
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