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Old 04-11-2015, 19:25   #466
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
If the wind is only blowing 6-7 knots, motor sailing is the only sailing we're going to be doing... if we plan on getting anywhere in a timely manner.
And thats the whole point.

Time . Thats what its all about. Speed v's distance.

At present I've got the kite up, its blowing ablout 5 - 8 knts and i'm sailing about 20 degrees above the rhumb line and averaging 4.5 to 5 knots. When the
seabreeze fills in i'll be able to free sheets and probably average 5.5 to 6 for the day.

How much faster will motoring be?. How noisy and smelly will motoring be?.
Depends a lot ones preference for sailing qualities or carpet pile when selecting a cruiser.

If the vessels sailing qualities are poor , or crew unskilled then one has no choice.

Regards Sluggo

ps i'm not on the Seawind. Thats at home in the Garage
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Old 04-11-2015, 19:29   #467
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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That is greatly exaggerated. Most modern condo cats sail well with 10k Wind on the beam.
Even for a loaded Lagoon 380? Sloppy left over seas and 10 knots?
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Old 04-11-2015, 19:42   #468
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Chatting with some friends returning from a 9 yr. cruise, Oz, AK, west coast of North America to Chile, to Labrador and return via Panama. They remarked on the passage planning of many of the catamarans they had met who were about to leave Mexico on the Milk Run. They said that these people intentionally chose zero to 5 knot wind times for passages and planned to motor them.. In all fairness, if leaving from Xihuatenejo, the winds are usually light for about 300 mi till you get out of the wind shadow of the mainland--which is why more experienced people leave from La Paz or Cabo San Lucas. Our friends never asked why, because such a question could be taken for criticism of the other guys' plans.

Sure, people motor or motor sail for a variety of reasons, but we always look for more wind than that, especially for a downwind passage. What're you gonna do when your visa has expired and there's no wind, sit there slatting?

Arguing about some people's engine usage makes me think of the old adage about not criticizing till you've walked a day in the other guy's moccasins.

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Old 04-11-2015, 20:19   #469
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Methinks Ken is on the beach tending to cash.....so any body out and sailing is doing better. (Not me...winter refit) As soon as the weather turns and vacation kicks in it's going to be another story. woohoo! can't wait. Motor shmoter, who's in a hurry?
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Old 04-11-2015, 20:35   #470
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
Methinks Ken is on the beach tending to cash.....so any body out and sailing is doing better. (Not me...winter refit) As soon as the weather turns and vacation kicks in it's going to be another story. woohoo! can't wait. Motor shmoter, who's in a hurry?
You're right. Boat, condo and job all in the northern hemisphere with winter setting in. Six month long American work treadmill to keep me busy. Only 18 months of this grind remaining spread over three years.

April 9th... Mexico for a week... Then the six month Med summer begins again!
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Old 04-11-2015, 21:01   #471
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
...we always look for more wind than that, especially for a downwind passage.
+2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Arguing about some people's engine usage makes me think of the old adage about not criticizing till you've walked a day in the other guy's moccasins.
Well said all 'round Ann!
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Old 05-11-2015, 00:26   #472
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

This thread seems to have lost the original answer:

Nearly ALL monohulls also motor or motorsail most of the time when traveling from point A to point B on Coastal Hops. There is no significant difference. Go down to the ICW and check. Offshore, they may or may not but you typically can't observe them, so they don't factor into the impression (plus it's the rare boat that can do a long offshore passage without sailing a good portion of it).

Does that make monohull sailors lazy or incompetent? No, just like it doesn't for catamaran sailors.

The breakdown has much more to do with the intent of the passage (hull type is largely irrelevant):
- Out to mess about for the day before returning to your home port (includes beer can races): 75-90% of both types are sailing.
- Coastal hops: better than 90% are motoring because you want to be in to your next port in a reasonable period of time and burning a couple gallons of fuel is a reasonable trade off to do so.
- Multiday Offshore passages: 95% are sailing (with maybe a bit of motorsailing to get to find wind).

Where this might give a slightly false impression is a higher percentage of catamarans are used for cruising and thus you see the Coastal Hops where as mono's make up a larger percentage of racers (ie: day sailors), so if you don't look at what they are doing, you see more sails up.
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Old 05-11-2015, 00:49   #473
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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If the wind is only blowing 6-7 knots, motor sailing is the only sailing we're going to be doing... if we plan on getting anywhere in a timely manner.

Occasionally, we fly the spinnaker if the wind is coming from the right direction.
Get yourself a code 0. 6-7 knots gets me sailing nicely at 3-4 knots at 40 degrees
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Old 05-11-2015, 00:57   #474
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by SunnySky View Post
As a catamaran owner that rarely motors but sees way too many sailboats motoring (both monohull and multihull) I would have to say motoring is almost always one of three things or a combination of the below:
1) Impatience/desire to keep a certain schedule ( or maybe tied to a tree before it gets dark.) which is especially true with guests regardless of if they are friends or charter guests
2) Lack of skill as a sailor
3) Sheer laziness


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Old 05-11-2015, 02:03   #475
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Get yourself a code 0. 6-7 knots gets me sailing nicely at 3-4 knots at 40 degrees
I suspect that a 22+ ton Oyster 53 may need slightly more wind than an 8 ton Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40 to get going.
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Old 05-11-2015, 02:39   #476
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

The original question was posted on behalf of Kenomacs wife, as an observation that Catamarans in the cruising area (Sardinia Corsica) had sails down and were motoring. Some thought it was an attack on Catamarans, however, it is not the case.

I recall the answer was something regarding it being a large charter area where most sailors were governed by the clock and therefore just hit the start button.

As for your diesel consumption Ken, time to change the generator or invest in solar. Tis a lot of fuel my friend, and at European prices, I am wincing for you.

When I coastal here in the UK, if winds are light, the engine goes on to assist the sails. Its possible to get a decent hull speed using both and the motion is steady in the water. (Westerly Centaur).

I have done the East Spain-Mallorca crossing about 16 times, and have concluded that 70% of those trips, the winds were not helpful, so on goes the engine assist for the Catamaran. If it had been a monohull, it would be exactly the same.

The winds are so irritating, that once over I even considered getting a powered Cat and have done with it. I have friends with power cruisers and they do the trip at 27-30 knots and are tied up to the dock in Soller within 4 hours. Im still plodding along 10 hours behind them with both engine and sails...

I will be in Seville early December and plan on doing a Seville cruise on the Guadalquivir to the sea. I then will fly to Barcelona and transit to Mallorca with a friend and his wife to Palma Mallorca. It may be on his Princess motor cruiser or it may be on a yet another friends newly purchased catamaran. Either way, it will be fun, weather permitting.

Regardless of anything, I have always found Catamarans more fun.

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Old 05-11-2015, 02:59   #477
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I had to motor out of Gladestone Marina this morning and up into Pancake Creek at lunch time .Bugga!
In between woo hoo no motors and a steady 15 knts nearly on the beam.
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Old 05-11-2015, 03:04   #478
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Trying to avoid the old debate..... I was dyed in the wool mono fanatic until a friend took me for a long delivery trip to weather in his cat. We bashed into the weather (south to north, Red Sea) on a 35ft cat. At the time we had a Lavranos 47 monohull.
The cat boat did go to wind, perhaps not as close as the L47, but it did not take many hours before we accepted we could sleep, cook, make tea (etc) and be generally better rested than we could on our half-a-boat. Cooking a roast chicken in the oven was not something that we would have contemplated on our boat in some of the weather we experienced. We had up to 35 knots apparent following wind in the Indian Ocean with big rolling waves and then had similar wind speeds on the nose for around 800 miles heading up the Red Sea, but with the usual viscous chop. We were against the calendar as normally I would wait the weather out.
We could have likely done the trip quicker on our own boat but at the expense of more strain on both the crew and the vessel.
After just over six weeks (we left from Kenya) on board, and getting off in Cyprus I was convinced; for long term cruising it had to be a cat. I still enjoy day sailing on a mono-hull regardless of conditions. For me it is not about the speed or even the space - it is about comfort, and not being strained unnecessarily.
Until the long delivery trip nothing could convince me about cats. Now I am converted but shall not knock mono's (and its foolish for me to deny the beauty of many mono-hulls versus cats).
Shortly after the above trip I did another cat trip from Cape Town to Durban, which many know can be fraught going against the current. Again we had an interesting time and that trip resulted in the L47 being marketted and replaced with a cat. We have had cats ever since and the bonus is that my wife now enjoys being on board.



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just quoting what was said:
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:39   #479
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I believe all the subject has not to do directly with the type of boat but with the type of sailors: Yes charters tend to use a lot more engine than owner boats and its comprehensible since they have a limited time and want to visit as many places as they can.

Most people that chose a condo cat do so not for being a better sailboat but for having lot's of space and many of those are not specially interested in sailing but in going to point a to point b as fast as they can and without to many work and enjoy life on anchorages or marinas as comfortably as they can.

There are also those with a similar mind set that use mono hulls but monohulls offer less space and most of those would only chose a monohull because they have no money for a more spacious cat.

Anyway you will find on performance monohulls or multihulls sailors that like more to sail then motor (that's why they chose that type of boat) and regarding these I am quite sure that the average will sail much more than the guys on condo cats or main market monohulls.

Of course, among those that sail condo cats and main market monohulls we also will find (on a smaller proportion) those that sail their boats whenever they can. I know of many condo cats that had circumnavigated and crossed many oceans and they did not have done that motoring.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:29   #480
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Each boat is a solution for a set of prioritized requirements. If your list of requirements has sailing fast @ 35 off the wind prioritized higher than overall comfort, a monohull is probably your best solution. If your list of requirements holds higher ranking to comfort (a very subjective category), engine redundancy, space, etc., a catamaran should be on your short list.

In my experience, in the overall performance category (all points of sail considered) for common production boats, a catamaran will out perform a monohull. I draw from my cruising experiences in buddy boat situations when moving 40-50-60nm a day, I'll typically be at the next anchorage resting for at least an hour before the monohulls arrive. This includes sailing or motoring or motor-sailing.
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