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Old 28-07-2015, 02:40   #301
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Well, yesterday was the first day in over four years where we got caught out in bad weather which lasted for more than 9 hours. We tried our best to make the right decisions to avoid most of it, but it was worse out there than forecast. Instead of a ten hour crossing in fairly nice weather which would have put us in a windy achorage, then had us starting out the day in a lousy tired situation, we carried on and ended up hitting 35-40 knots right on the nose for five hours... Then a continuous 25-35 for maybe another five hours. Twenty hours total, got in at 2am.

Our boat was a submarine at times.... i wouldn't have wanted to be on a catamaran during any of that. Or on many costal cruiser monos either. Eventually our luck ran out, but other than a shredded American flag... No worries, no problems.
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Old 28-07-2015, 02:51   #302
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Well, yesterday was the first day in over four years where we got caught out in bad weather which lasted for more than 9 hours. We tried our best to make the right decisions to avoid most of it, but it was worse out there than forecast. Instead of a ten hour crossing in fairly nice weather which would have put us in a windy achorage, then had us starting out the day in a lousy tired situation, we carried on and ended up hitting 35-40 knots right on the nose for five hours... Then a continuous 25-35 for maybe another five hours. Twenty hours total, got in at 2am.

Our boat was a submarine at times.... i wouldn't have wanted to be on a catamaran during any of that. Or on many costal cruiser monos either. Eventually our luck ran out, but other than a shredded American flag... No worries, no problems.
Gosh. Unless you have been on a Catamaran in weather like that, you cannot compare.

A lot here have.

I myself in a 5 hours space have been 32/5 knot headwinds on a Cat off Minorca. It was a Lagoon 380 and whilst not pleasant, was not in any way unsafe or dangerous or ........... actually I cannot compare to an Oyster because I have not been on one in a blow-I havent been on one period.

You will have to ask Monte or someone who probably has encountered severe weather........ all I know on the CAt is that I was still making coffee quite comfortably except for the occasional twists here and there....... we skipped lunch.

We didnt lose our flag either.
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Old 28-07-2015, 03:28   #303
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Apparently, catamarans have the ability to defy the laws of physics and are able to levitate above the choppy wind driven waves.

I don't believe it. I've seen videos of Cats doing the same thing in the same weather and being just as miserable. BTW, Sunday was miserable with the big swells coming at us from broadside, but no seasickness yesterday... We plowed into the crummy conditions just fine. I've also spoken to quite a few cat owners who are adamant... As we are too, about avoiding bad weather and sailing across passages in good weather.

We got caught out... it can happen to anyone..... Unless of course the sailor is one who stays at the dock, lives in a marina or dreams behind a computer. I've always agreed that a catamaran is more stable at anchor and in mild seas, but when the SHTF... Give me a solid mono any day.. I'll even pass on the newest flagship Gunfleet. :-)
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Old 28-07-2015, 03:42   #304
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Apparently, catamarans have the ability to defy the laws of physics and are able to levitate above the choppy wind driven waves.

I don't believe it. I've seen videos of Cats doing the same thing in the same weather and being just as miserable. I've also spoken to quite a few cat owners who are adamant... As we are too, about avoiding bad weather and sailing across passages in good weather.

We got caught out... it can happen to anyone..... Unless of course the sailor is one who stays at the dock, lives in a marina or dreams behind a computer. I've always agreed that a catamaran is more stable at anchor and in mild seas, but when the SHTF... Give me a solid mono any day.. I'll even pass on the newest flagship Gunfleet. :-)
I did not say it was wonderful or pleasant. I did say that your comparison is a non starter because you have not been on a Cat in that type of weather yet insist that a mono is better. Its exactly why arguments rage between mono owners and Cat owners because on the lack of facts. My own small experience has led me to believe that it is equally as safe-and I have been in bad weather in both mono and Cat. You have not. I am willing to conced that I am but just one person with a miniscule experience and that is why I defered to world cruisers on this forum who have Cats.

Again, you need to compare the experience of multihullers on this forum and ask yourself why would they put a million plus in a Cat and sail around the world if the vessels are so bad at seakeeping?

I guess your Sunreef aspirations are now over.
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Old 28-07-2015, 03:55   #305
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Gary,

I have spoken to quite a few multihull owners other than yourself, and they universally say (the five that we know) that they avoid bad weather at all cost. My friend Peter who lives on his Lagoon 450, says he plans to sell the Cat and go back to living on a monohull before any more ocean crossings. He's only done one on the Lagoon across the Bay of Biscay and on down to the Med. he says that was enough to convince him not to take it to the Caribbean. That doesn't mean others shouldn't do the same, it's done all the time. It just means to him and me that he doesn't have the same confidence in the Lagoon as he had in his previous Tayana 52 he owned for 12 years.

I would like you or a Multihull owner to try and explain how an object which is about as aerodynamic and hydrodynamic as a shoebox, can cut through 6 meter seas and 40 knot winds as well as a monohull can? I realize that a much larger cat can ride somewhat above the turbulence, but how does a 38ft cat allow you make coffee and have a pleasant lunch in those conditions? I don't believe a 38ft Cat can even make headway directly into the wind and waves in those conditions. We could only manage 3-4 knots during the worst of it and were surprised to be able to do that.

We would still consider a Sunreef 60 or even a 50ft trawler someday, but for right now, we'll have to make due with what we have.
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Old 28-07-2015, 04:00   #306
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

just quoting what was said:


Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Gosh. Unless you have been on a Catamaran in weather like that, you cannot compare.

A lot here have.

I myself in a 5 hours space have been 32/5 knot headwinds on a Cat off Minorca. It was a Lagoon 380 and whilst not pleasant, was not in any way unsafe or dangerous or ........... actually I cannot compare to an Oyster because I have not been on one in a blow-I havent been on one period.

You will have to ask Monte or someone who probably has encountered severe weather........ all I know on the CAt is that I was still making coffee quite comfortably except for the occasional twists here and there....... we skipped lunch.

We didnt lose our flag either.
Quote:
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Gary,

but how does a 38ft cat allow you make coffee and have a pleasant lunch in those conditions?

We would still consider a Sunreef 60 or even a 50ft trawler someday, but for right now, we'll have to make due with what we have.
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Old 28-07-2015, 04:26   #307
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Unless you are there at the time, you don't know how the sea conditions are. The wind might be similar but the sea state can vary greatly.

Once I was caught in a situation where I was 5nm South of Mykonos and had to motor into 30-40 knots. The waves whipped up in such a short distance were probably 1,5 to 2 meters, very steep and close together. I tried going head on into them but was crashing hard into them. I still had the main up so bared off on about 30degrees, with the sail giving stability and some extra drive. It was not fun but better than the bashing. I'd doubt that a cat would have been much different going straight into those waves and I'm guessing barring off would be vomit inducing.

Before we got into the lee of Mykonos we were on a beam reach in 35-45 knts with 2-3m swells which was perfectly fine. I do wonder what the ride in a cat would be like. In the Aegean the waves are I guess are a lot closer together and steeper than in the open ocean and I suspect a sailing mono would be more stable.


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Old 28-07-2015, 05:32   #308
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Well, just bumped into this thread, never read so much uninformed rattling.

My wife and I have been living aboard our cat 5y, here are some stats:

motors run for 1600h, if I remove 600h for battery charging and maneuvering in and out of anchorages, ports and marinas, it leaves 1000h under power.
At a cruising speed of 6kn, that would give me around 6,000NM, however we clocked nearly 30,000 NM across seas and oceans.

We travel faster under sail than motor, on average 7kn, but have sailed for extended runs at 9~11kn and even touched 17 once or twice.
We are both over 60 and really do not like pushing the boat, so we sail conservatively, reef early and cook, eat, sleep on autopilot, upwind or DDW.

In these 5y, despite my best efforts to avoid it, I have been caught in 40Kn+, all I had to do is reef, furl the genoa to 1/4 and go back in the saloon while she keeps going on her own with waves crushing over the roof.

I reef upwind or downwind in exactly the same way as it was described above.

My main goes up in a minute and comes down in 10 seconds.

I never risk being thrown overboard as my boat travels flat, but in any case, I do not need to go at the mast, it all gets done from the helm station.

We have many friends with all sorts of boats cruising around the world, but guess where they all like to go for a sundowner: in my cockpit.
We had a party in Suwarrow with 24 people (too many mosquitoes on shore...).
That is where cats shine: the 95% of time when you enjoy life aboard, at anchor in a secluded bay.

To date, I have not met a cat owner that would like to sell his cat and buy a mono, while I heard the opposite quite a few times.

Out there in the deep blue sail all sorts of boats, ferro-cement monos and beautiful S&S classic monos, as well as fast and slow cats, armchair sailors should stop generalising.

These are facts, not guessed or made up stories.
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Old 28-07-2015, 05:51   #309
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
I was travelling neck and neck with a cat this morning. He was pointing slightly higher and moving a fraction of a knot faster. Eventually I broke off from the encounter by tacking and he continued motoring.

Saw 4 cats and not a single one of them were sailing. Also saw way to many monos motoring today. There was enough wind for comfortable sailing all day, so I don't know why these people bother with sailing boats.

It's 3am and I was becalmed, so I bit the bullet and started the motor as well.


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I enjoyed the humor.

Humor is good to see in a thread that can get divisive.
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Old 28-07-2015, 05:52   #310
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by spiv View Post
These are facts, not guessed or made up stories.
We don't believe you. Truths and facts can only come from those who have never set foot on a catamaran.

Obviously you did not read this thread. In the future, please limit your contributions to validation of largish monohulls.

{insert sarcasm emoticon}

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Old 28-07-2015, 05:55   #311
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
i wouldn't have wanted to be on a catamaran during any of that. Or on many costal cruiser monos either. Eventually our luck ran out, but other than a shredded American flag... No worries, no problems.
You should be happy that you found validation for your choice of boat. I wouldn't have wanted to be out in those conditions on a Westsail 32 either, though.

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Old 28-07-2015, 06:04   #312
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

just passed a monohull with the rail down, shortly after they took the sails down, I continued to sail.
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Old 28-07-2015, 06:16   #313
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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You should be happy that you found validation for your choice of boat. I wouldn't have wanted to be out in those conditions on a Westsail 32 either, though.

Mark
How does YOUR boat handle heading directly into force 8? Sustained 35-40 knots, 15-18 foot choppy seas. When I get to a wifi spot, maybe I can download a video of the encounter we had, wet on the outside clipped in and wearing a harness life vest, dry on the inside, no worries about safety and my wife casually reading a book in the cockpit up until she gets doused by a wave. That part will need to be edited due to the language content. :-)

We were able to make 3-4 knots of headway, which surprised us. Can your cat make headway in those condition? My inquiring mind would like to know.
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Old 28-07-2015, 06:19   #314
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Well, yesterday was the first day in over four years where we got caught out in bad weather which lasted for more than 9 hours. We tried our best to make the right decisions to avoid most of it, but it was worse out there than forecast. Instead of a ten hour crossing in fairly nice weather which would have put us in a windy achorage, then had us starting out the day in a lousy tired situation, we carried on and ended up hitting 35-40 knots right on the nose for five hours... Then a continuous 25-35 for maybe another five hours. Twenty hours total, got in at 2am.

Our boat was a submarine at times.... i wouldn't have wanted to be on a catamaran during any of that. Or on many costal cruiser monos either. Eventually our luck ran out, but other than a shredded American flag... No worries, no problems.
That would make for a nice video. Good time to get out the GoPro!
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Old 28-07-2015, 06:22   #315
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiv View Post
Well, just bumped into this thread, never read so much uninformed rattling.

My wife and I have been living aboard our cat 5y, here are some stats:

motors run for 1600h, if I remove 600h for battery charging and maneuvering in and out of anchorages, ports and marinas, it leaves 1000h under power.
At a cruising speed of 6kn, that would give me around 6,000NM, however we clocked nearly 30,000 NM across seas and oceans.

We travel faster under sail than motor, on average 7kn, but have sailed for extended runs at 9~11kn and even touched 17 once or twice.
We are both over 60 and really do not like pushing the boat, so we sail conservatively, reef early and cook, eat, sleep on autopilot, upwind or DDW.

In these 5y, despite my best efforts to avoid it, I have been caught in 40Kn+, all I had to do is reef, furl the genoa to 1/4 and go back in the saloon while she keeps going on her own with waves crushing over the roof.

I reef upwind or downwind in exactly the same way as it was described above.

My main goes up in a minute and comes down in 10 seconds.

I never risk being thrown overboard as my boat travels flat, but in any case, I do not need to go at the mast, it all gets done from the helm station.

We have many friends with all sorts of boats cruising around the world, but guess where they all like to go for a sundowner: in my cockpit.
We had a party in Suwarrow with 24 people (too many mosquitoes on shore...).
That is where cats shine: the 95% of time when you enjoy life aboard, at anchor in a secluded bay.

To date, I have not met a cat owner that would like to sell his cat and buy a mono, while I heard the opposite quite a few times.

Out there in the deep blue sail all sorts of boats, ferro-cement monos and beautiful S&S classic monos, as well as fast and slow cats, armchair sailors should stop generalising.

These are facts, not guessed or made up stories.
Thank you for adding your comments up above. I found them interesting to read here.
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