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Old 21-07-2015, 11:59   #271
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I guess it's reefing science.
It really is simple if you do it enough
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Old 21-07-2015, 15:28   #272
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
The way I do it is to winch the clew reefing point in a bit, basically lifting the boom toward the reefing point, then ease the halyard 'till the boom is level again, then winch in the clew again... until you get the tack reefing point down and fixed, then retension the halyard.
G'Day 44,

Are your spreaders swept back or in line? And in order for the boom to lift, you need to slack the mainsheet... what keeps the boom from just going forward? And do you center the boom before reefing?

I've been trying to work out a good downwind reefing process on our mono, with swept back spreaders and long battens, and haven't had much success. I guess one could use the windward vang/preventer to keep the boom in place horizontally while slacking the sheet... hmmm... have to give that a try!!

Swept back spreaders do a wonderful job of mast support, but they can be a PITA otherwise1

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Old 21-07-2015, 16:03   #273
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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G'Day 44,

Are your spreaders swept back or in line? And in order for the boom to lift, you need to slack the mainsheet... what keeps the boom from just going forward? And do you center the boom before reefing?

I've been trying to work out a good downwind reefing process on our mono, with swept back spreaders and long battens, and haven't had much success. I guess one could use the windward vang/preventer to keep the boom in place horizontally while slacking the sheet... hmmm... have to give that a try!!

Swept back spreaders do a wonderful job of mast support, but they can be a PITA otherwise1

Jim

Our spreaders are very much swept-back.

When we're running or very deep reaching, the boom is pretty much as far forward as it can go. It's not far from the shrouds. I use a line through a stand-up block just aft of the shrouds and on to the boom end as a preventer to hold the boom down and keep the sail off the spreaders when sailing deep.

To reef, I let this go, and let the sail sit against the spreaders and shrouds. Just enough mainsheet on to stop the battens reversing around the shrouds. The sheet at this stage is fairly horizontal, so it allows the boom end to rise a fair bit.

Then I just use the reefing winch to pull the boom up toward the leech reefing point, as described earlier.


Having a reasonably easily driven boat certainly helps here. Keeps apparent wind down when DDW, especially when just shifting down to first reef. Reefing deeper than that is usually easily managed anyway, simply because of the reduce sail area.


Hope this helps.
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Old 21-07-2015, 17:52   #274
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I still can't figure out why nearly 100% of the catamarans I've seen have two hulls. Don't cat owners know they could drop one hull and have a monohull with one good tack and one really, really bad one? Or add a hull and have all the lack of comforts of a mono?

Just kidding. I really enjoyed this reefing discussion as when it was time to reef my hobie, it was either hike out or flip (I could never manage to hold onto the main sheet in order to blow it when out on the edge).


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Old 21-07-2015, 22:45   #275
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Of course all this reefing discussion is purely hypothetical. It's what we might do if we ever actually sailed.
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Old 23-07-2015, 15:09   #276
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

This thread is related with one from Roberts regarding being the wives choice the determinant factor to most buyers of cats and off course they don't want a cat because it sails better or faster but because it has more interior space and does not heel.

The same applies to sailing, normally most wives hate sailing and prefer motoring.

Of course this applies only to condo cats (90%) and even among those there are a minority of owners that likes sailing their boats even with weak winds.

The owners of performance cats will sail as much the owners of performance monohulls and I bet a lot more than the ones that charter monohulls: most of those do not sail the boat even when the wind is perfectly good.
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Old 24-07-2015, 16:31   #277
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Well Polux your points of view are bound to upset a few people but when you give them deep thought its hard to argue against.
The most attractive thing about owning a Cat is the room aboard and for the most part sailing fairly flat. Who doesn't like those huge cockpits that are like a separate room. Great access when coming in with the dink and easy access to the water. The space below is huge and well divided for living with a 360 degree view outside. These are all very attractive features and women who on average are not devoted to sailing find these boats just about perfect.
In my mind they have just about gutted the high performance side of the equation to ensure more space/storage and luxury and knowing their buyers it makes complete sense.
I have sailed on cruising Cats that went like hell and pointed with mono hulls but they had much smaller pontoons and much lower freeboard and had to be kept light. There is a very limited market for a boat like this today as the Condo Cats rule.
My wife if given the choice would choose a Condo Cat as well so the odds of us ever owning a higher performance Cat is zero. Hell we own a center cockpit mono that is a long way from a performance mono so in the mono world we are no different.
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Old 24-07-2015, 17:03   #278
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Not much wind here over the past three weeks, we've been motor sailing most of the time. Most Monohulls we've seen usually with just the main sail up, which doesn't make much sense to us, since our particular boat seems to motor sail best with the jib up, or jib and main. Multihulls.... still motoring, but this is the peak of the charter season, so I'm understandably cutting them some slack. In this heat, 89-95 degrees every day with almost no wind, I'd want to get someplace as quick as possible myself.

We're on the move again Sunday and Monday, and as luck will have it, 15 knots of wind forecast from dead ahead for 8 hours.
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Old 24-07-2015, 17:09   #279
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Welcome to the Med Ken....the system is working
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Old 24-07-2015, 18:13   #280
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I was travelling neck and neck with a cat this morning. He was pointing slightly higher and moving a fraction of a knot faster. Eventually I broke off from the encounter by tacking and he continued motoring.

Saw 4 cats and not a single one of them were sailing. Also saw way to many monos motoring today. There was enough wind for comfortable sailing all day, so I don't know why these people bother with sailing boats.

It's 3am and I was becalmed, so I bit the bullet and started the motor as well.


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Old 25-07-2015, 00:15   #281
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Oh well, interestingly we were sailing north today in the vicinity of 3 other boats, 2 cats and a mono. Only the mono was motoring. But it was a pretty heavy ketch, and the wind was quite light - 10-12 knots, and from dead astern.


We also passed another cat sailing south. Upwind.
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Old 25-07-2015, 03:07   #282
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy;1875837..

Saw 4 cats and not a single one of them were sailing. Also saw way to many monos motoring today. There was enough wind for comfortable sailing all day, so I don't know why these people bother with sailing boats.
..
Once I saw a Bavaria salesman convincing a couple to buy a sailing boat because it was a very good and economical motorboat (in fuel consumption) and much cheaper than a true motorboat with the same interior size. They bought the boat and they did not want a sail boat neither do they want to sail.

The time when sailing boats had an auxiliary engine is long gone today they come standard with a powerful engine with an option for an oversized engine that turns them in cheap displacement motorboats and many buy them as such so no wonder that they go motoring.

The same applies to most charters: they don't want to sail they want a cheap "caravan" to sail from anchorage to anchorage or from marina to marina and they want to arrive there as soon as they can and that means motoring on most boats. Not in mine but then I like to sail (my boat has an auxiliary engine, a dying species:biggrin):

That applies to condo cats too that offer plus the added security of two engines, a much bigger interior/exterior space...at a superior cost. If they were cheaper I have no doubt that we would see more condo cats than monohulls, including in charter...happily motoring and enjoying all that space in marinas and anchorages.
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Old 25-07-2015, 03:32   #283
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Aren't catamarans mostly a Caribbean/Mediterranean "thing"? Popular with charterers whose wives don't want to be "too close to the water"? ... My eight-year-old sister went into a tantrum swearing like a sailor when our father's monohull sailboat leaned.
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Old 25-07-2015, 03:44   #284
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Once I saw a Bavaria salesman convincing a couple to buy a sailing boat because it was a very good and economical motorboat (in fuel consumption) and much cheaper than a true motorboat with the same interior size. They bought the boat and they did not want a sail boat neither do they want to sail.

The time when sailing boats had an auxiliary engine is long gone today they come standard with a powerful engine with an option for an oversized engine that turns them in cheap displacement motorboats and many buy them as such so no wonder that they go motoring.

The same applies to most charters: they don't want to sail they want a cheap "caravan" to sail from anchorage to anchorage or from marina to marina and they want to arrive there as soon as they can and that means motoring on most boats. Not in mine but then I like to sail (my boat has an auxiliary engine, a dying species:biggrin):

That applies to condo cats too that offer plus the added security of two engines, a much bigger interior/exterior space...at a superior cost. If they were cheaper I have no doubt that we would see more condo cats than monohulls, including in charter...happily motoring and enjoying all that space in marinas and anchorages.
I half jokingly suggested to a charter co. owner that he should get yachts without a mast. Then I realised that was a stupid suggestion, where could they hoist their pirate and many other flags
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Old 25-07-2015, 04:19   #285
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Aren't catamarans mostly a Caribbean/Mediterranean "thing"? Popular with charterers whose wives don't want to be "too close to the water"? ... My eight-year-old sister went into a tantrum swearing like a sailor when our father's monohull sailboat leaned.
You'll find that there is a growing number of global cruising cats. We have been cruising since '95 and see more and more cats. These originally seemed to be mostly South African and Aussie cats in the Indian Ocean. In the last ten years we have seen all sorts of nationalities on cats but the majority of cruisers are still on mono-hulls.
There appears to be a reducing number of what I would consider ocean worthy cruising cats being manufactured. Many cats today, in my opinion, are being designed and built for the charter market. It makes me wonder about ultimate safety.
I sometimes have wondered if the older cats shall eventually increase in value as a result? Many of the older cats seem to have dropped to a plateau in their value and do not go below that.
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