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Old 19-07-2015, 06:16   #256
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Multi-hulls use the wrong rig. They bought into the idea of going fast undersail, and reefing when winds are high. However:

#1 Unless the multihull reefs BEFORE being slammed by a squall they are in trouble. They can't dump the wind.

#2 It can be more scary to reef standing way up on the roof of a cat since the life lines usually don't prevent you from falling off the pilot house.

New aft mast rigs are hitting market especially in Thailand you have just one roller furling head sail.

Expect to see more.
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Old 19-07-2015, 15:25   #257
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I don't agree with much of this.


We can reef on any point of sail. I've reefed or dropped the main in 30 knots. I don't have to get on the cabin roof to reef.


You CAN dump the wind. That you can't is an oft repeated falsehood.


Even DDW, if you completely release the mainsheet you WILL depower the sail. It will wrap around the shrouds, the battens will reverse, if it's a very strong gust you might even break battens, but the sail WILL be depowered.


But the entire thread is based on a falsehood, so why not throw in more?
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Old 19-07-2015, 15:39   #258
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Yeah, such assertions are based on pretty uninformed assumptions.

Multihulls go so fast so easily downwind, I rarely use the main sail above F4. I hang 2 foresails on the forestay, size appropriate to the wind, and sail at hull speed and above very comfortably.

When I crossed the Atlantic singlehanded, there were up to a dozen squalls a day in the trades. Since my foresails are hanked on and hoisted on one halyard, all I had to do to drop both sails was to open a clutch on the mast - which I can reach easily from the cockpit. I often kept the storm jib up on an inner forestay, so that if I dropped the headsails, I still had the storm jib raised to keep enough speed for good steerage. No-one could have dumped wind faster than I did.

Since I can reach the foot of the mast easily from the cockpit, I never have to stand on the roof, unless I want to admire the view from there.

There's catamarans and then there's catamarans. It doesn't do to generalise and condemn so easily.
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Old 19-07-2015, 15:49   #259
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

One thing to keep in mind, we all have an idea of what sailing is. When 24 hr sailing I am asleep and depend on a crew.

So when someone says..You can dump the wind..You are the guy that always seems to be sleeping when crew were on shift.

You relied on crew that fell asleep as autopilot was doing the steering.

You thought conditions were fine to sail in the night..

You needed a nap and in midday no one noticed..

I can attest the first owner my vessel snapped the battens and spent many hours repairing and fixing that plus batten pockets.

So to me, a sail with no battens is a good idea.

Any non-Full batten main sail rig is better. Except the giant fixed wing.

It is called idiot proof sailing.

Some sailors can get around the problem if

They...set timers and wake-up regularly
They...have an excellent experienced crew
They...are Ozzie or Scotch
They...accept derigging as a normal event
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Old 19-07-2015, 16:07   #260
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by pir8ped View Post
Yeah, such assertions are based on pretty uninformed assumptions.

Multihulls go so fast so easily downwind, I rarely use the main sail above F4. I hang 2 foresails on the forestay, size appropriate to the wind, and sail at hull speed and above very comfortably.

When I crossed the Atlantic singlehanded, there were up to a dozen squalls a day in the trades. Since my foresails are hanked on and hoisted on one halyard, all I had to do to drop both sails was to open a clutch on the mast - which I can reach easily from the cockpit. I often kept the storm jib up on an inner forestay, so that if I dropped the headsails, I still had the storm jib raised to keep enough speed for good steerage. No-one could have dumped wind faster than I did.

Since I can reach the foot of the mast easily from the cockpit, I never have to stand on the roof, unless I want to admire the view from there.

There's catamarans and then there's catamarans. It doesn't do to generalise and condemn so easily.
Some multihulls are very quick downwind but most of the overloaded cruising Cats are around the same speed as a monohull. Just look at the crossing times in the ARC many multi's were well behind a comparable mono. Having said that I do understand that a well designed Cat is on average much quicker than a monohull downwind.
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Old 19-07-2015, 16:26   #261
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
One thing to keep in mind, we all have an idea of what sailing is. When 24 hr sailing I am asleep and depend on a crew.

So when someone says..You can dump the wind..You are the guy that always seems to be sleeping when crew were on shift.

You relied on crew that fell asleep as autopilot was doing the steering.

You thought conditions were fine to sail in the night..

You needed a nap and in midday no one noticed..

I can attest the first owner my vessel snapped the battens and spent many hours repairing and fixing that plus batten pockets.

So to me, a sail with no battens is a good idea.

Any non-Full batten main sail rig is better. Except the giant fixed wing.

It is called idiot proof sailing.

Some sailors can get around the problem if

They...set timers and wake-up regularly
They...have an excellent experienced crew
They...are Ozzie or Scotch
They...accept derigging as a normal event
You posts suggest to me that you have little or no experience sailing a cat'.

We always reef at night. My wife knows how to release the mainsheet and headsail sheet.

If you allow someone to crew your boat while you sleep, without explaining these basics, you're an idiot.

But if you think any cruiser accepts derigging as a normal event....
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Old 19-07-2015, 16:51   #262
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

Well, we had the jib up yesterday. We were returning to anchorage from watching the Tall Ships parade in Portland, ME. Wind of about 5 knts was from astern so we decided to catch the wind. Not far from us was a Hunter 38. Well, you know, when two sailboats are going in the same direction......
Didn't exactly smoke him but this 17,000# Leopard pulled ahead!
Embarrassed as he was :-) he turned away to pretend he needed to go a different destination.
So there ... we were sailing.
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Old 19-07-2015, 16:59   #263
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

And he'll tell everyone you were motoring...
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Old 19-07-2015, 17:27   #264
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by dpddj View Post
Well, we had the jib up yesterday. We were returning to anchorage from watching the Tall Ships parade in Portland, ME. Wind of about 5 knts was from astern so we decided to catch the wind. Not far from us was a Hunter 38. Well, you know, when two sailboats are going in the same direction......
Didn't exactly smoke him but this 17,000# Leopard pulled ahead!
Embarrassed as he was :-) he turned away to pretend he needed to go a different destination.
So there ... we were sailing.
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Old 20-07-2015, 06:25   #265
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

I don't understand this post any more, ........can't "dump" the wind?, can't reef the sail?....you people sailing in a virtual video game?.....crossed the Atlantic, all kinds of winds and seas in all directions, never had a close call. You reef, you shake out the reefs, you drop the sails. If you can't perform these functions you should not be on a sailboat of any kind.
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Old 20-07-2015, 06:50   #266
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
But the entire thread is based on a falsehood, so why not throw in more?
Yep, including the title.
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Old 20-07-2015, 14:45   #267
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I don't agree with much of this.


We can reef on any point of sail. I've reefed or dropped the main in 30 knots. I don't have to get on the cabin roof to reef.


You CAN dump the wind. That you can't is an oft repeated falsehood.


Even DDW, if you completely release the mainsheet you WILL depower the sail. It will wrap around the shrouds, the battens will reverse, if it's a very strong gust you might even break battens, but the sail WILL be depowered.


But the entire thread is based on a falsehood, so why not throw in more?
Had a question to you regarding reefing the main. I just purchased a new to me Cat. Switch51 and was told by the previous owner and owners of a couple of other Switch's that they don't/can't reef the main off the wind. Do you have a rotating mast? In my monohull I was always able to reef without going head to wind while sailing in higher winds and that was without leaving the cockpit and with plastic sail slugs on the luff instead of nice ballbearing cars which I have now. Still waiting to retire so have limited experiences thus far as the boat is 3000 miles from me.
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Old 20-07-2015, 15:04   #268
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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was told by the previous owner and owners of a couple of other Switch's that they don't/can't reef the main off the wind.
Good question. I would like to know the steps as well. Releasing the main halyard going downwind tends to let the main drop a bit, but it gets caught as the full battens try to wrap around the shrouds. I have the batten cars as well. We generally just turn the boat around to weather, drop the halyard, attach the reef tack, winch the halyard up tight (winch on the mast), then head back and start cranking in the reefing line running thru the clew. (I installed a mast-mounted winch to facilitate this, plus raising, although the lines were all original led aft. But it really cuts down on the friction with the winch on the mast. Plus you have to go up there anyway to reef, as you have to attach the tack ring.)
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Old 20-07-2015, 17:02   #269
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

You can reef on the run. Or at least we can. We do it all the time. I never turn upwind to reef.


The way I do it is to winch the clew reefing point in a bit, basically lifting the boom toward the reefing point, then ease the halyard 'till the boom is level again, then winch in the clew again... until you get the tack reefing point down and fixed, then retension the halyard.


Dropping the main in light wind, I'll turn upwind. In stronger wind the sail will be reefed, and so is able to be dropped on the run too if needed.
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Old 20-07-2015, 17:41   #270
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Re: Why Do Catamarans Motor Nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by MIRELOS View Post
I don't understand this post any more, ........can't "dump" the wind?, can't reef the sail?....you people sailing in a virtual video game?....
.Yes - most of them are.
Quote:
crossed the Atlantic, all kinds of winds and seas in all directions, never had a close call. You reef, you shake out the reefs, you drop the sails. If you can't perform these functions you should not be on a sailboat of any kind
Pretty simple isnt it. Very straight forward. For years now I have reefed single handed whilst on the wind, dropped and hauled sails all on my own. It really isnt rocket science.
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