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Old 02-09-2012, 18:32   #31
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
and where did you pluck those numbers from?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...L3MPFr_IgQa1CQ
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Old 02-09-2012, 18:34   #32
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

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Originally Posted by CHARTER MAGIC View Post
anyone ever look at the Nexus 60? Epoxy construction, carbon fiber enforcements, very fast, and much lower pricing.
Helm setup looks awful - at that size and money a yacht must have some "sexyness" which Nexus 60 definitely does not have.

Just look at the "cheap" sails - no wonder it's cheaper then a GB.
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Old 03-09-2012, 16:47   #33
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

Thanks everyone for the comments and questions. Several points:

We have been building Gunboats for 12 years, and have done several series in this size range. We know our weights, and we know our owner payloads. We have watched many aspiring competitors come and go. Many start with overly optimistic claims of performance and weight. We meet our weights. The Gunboat 60 is within 80kgs of her designed weight, and she is capable of a nearly 3 ton payload for world cruising. Most world cruisers will need every ounce of that payload. Most competitors do not offer enough payload for their owners. Their payloads end up getting used by options... Our lightship weight calculations include everything for world cruising less the consumables and people. The RIB is in there, all of the options available. We do not mess around with marketing BS on this subject. There are many race results available to check our performance against others who claim to be lighter or better performing...so far no one in the world cruising cat category has stacked up. You can achieve lighter, but it is simply a question of which comfort or convenience you wish to sacrifice. If you want to camp, we can easily beat anyone's weights!

The Gunboat 60 is intended as a self sufficient world cruiser, first and foremost. She is comfortable and carries every amenity including washer/dryer, full aircon, gourmet galley, crew quarters, four cabins, four heads, etc. Feature for feature, I can assure you that no one will compare on the amenities that come standard and are already in the weight calculation. Performance-wise, the Gunboat 60 is within 1-2% of her renown Gunboat 66 sister series. In some conditions, the 60 will be quicker, and in some the 66 will be quicker. I can tell you from the preliminary sea trials that the Gunboat 60 is a significant jump forward for Gunboat from its prior work. The new designs are faster, smoother, and pitch even less. Our design team has the most extensive knowledge and database on this size range in the market. Nigel Irens has delivered everything he promised.

The build quality of our Gunboat 60 is amongst our best to date. It really does not matter where Gunboat builds its boats. We always achieve a world leading standard due to our specifications, designs, oversight, and management. Gunboats have been built in four yards in South Africa, one in China, and one in the US. We have achieved excellent results in each and every yard...the country does not matter...unless you are a bigot!

On comparable weights, the Gunboat 60 series is lighter than the Gunboat 62 or 66 series, despite having significantly more furniture, luxuries and amenities included. Our structures are 100% carbon, epoxy and core cell. These are the best materials available today. Our resin ratios are very carefully controlled and are at grand prix race boat ratios to the fibers. The infusion process allows to duplicate our ratios and engineering precisely. It is in our opinion, the best process for a high tech world cruiser to achieve the highest quality laminate.

All of our Gunboat series are designed and engineered for world cruising. I love the armchair pontifications and judgements from folks who have not sailed a Gunboat. Case in point is the Gunboat 55. She is designed to the be the largest cat that a couple can world cruise as owner-operators without relying on crew or occassional help. The inspiration for the Gunboat 55 came directly from our renown Gunboat 48 series. An owner in Finland cruises his Gunboat 48 for 9 months out of the year in their archipelago. Rather than be limited to their salon, they enclosed the aft cockpit and found that it was no problem to seal out the winter and have one great big open space to make the salon and aft cockpit all interior. With their success, an idea became immediately apparent. Why not get rid of the door bulkhead and create one large convertible space? Let's face it, any of us who lived aboard and done some years cruising, know exactly how the boats are used. You step aboard, and you open the doors and windows from the salon to the aft cockpit, and you never close them until you leave the boat, so what is the point? We may as well have one giant space that can be opened up at the aft end. If you cruise colder climates, or get some muggy rainy weather, seal it off and turn on the aircon or heat. Our Gunboat 48 in Finland was already a successfully proven concept. The Gunboat 55 leapfrogs the idea one step further and opens up the space dramatically.

Before you raise the security question, let me point out that any sliding door on any cat is not secure. A crowbar can open it in two seconds. The Gunboat 55 has lockable and very secure companionway doors into each hull, so the ultimate security of the Gunboat 55 interior is quite a bit more substantial than a typical cat.

Coming back to the point of the thread, Gunboat offers two excellent solutions for world cruising. The 55 is likely a more direct comparison to the Outremer 5X in terms of comfort and space. Yet we deliver an all carbon structure with all epoxy resins. In summary, we deliver a boat with superior materials and finish at a similar price.

The Gunboat 60 is the ultimate in performance, luxury, finish and quality for the family going around the world.

In either case, buyers of Gunboats expect the absolute best. They are not so concerned with getting the lowest price. We certainly cannot charge less. Our materials alone cost more than competitors' retail pricing. It is a low margin business fueled by our passion to deliver the best available. Our record should be pretty clear to everyone. Our boats have sailed over 2 million miles without a major structural issue. We put in the time with every owner and crew to make sure they really understand their Gunboat. If you step aboard, or really take the time to see how we do things, I think you will agree that no one compares on any level. Any of you are invited to come see our production in NC or in Xiamen.

If you are coming to the Annapolis Show in October, please be sure to make an appointment through Gunboat. Whatever Gunboat we bring always has a line of 45-90 minutes long to board. I would hate to have anyone serious about Gunboat having to wait.
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Old 03-09-2012, 17:05   #34
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

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Why not get rid of the door bulkhead and create one large convertible space?
End quote

That's a great idea Pete, except Seawind pioneered that design concept almost 20 years ago with their Seawind 1000. Nice of you to follow suit though!
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Old 03-09-2012, 18:12   #35
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

Pete ... sorry to say that, but the new design (bows) look not too "sexy". May be my taste is too conservative but a bow "must" point upward (was it to save some kg ?)

Further the GB55 has quite a similarity to Broadblue's Rapier or vice-versa ... just a coincidence ? There's nothing worse then 2 women wearing the same evening dress !
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Old 03-09-2012, 21:08   #36
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

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why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?
Simple. When I look at a Gunboat 60 photo my heart rate triples and my knees go weak. When I look at an Outremer 5X photo none of that happens.
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Old 03-09-2012, 21:23   #37
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

damn! Who is passing around the hatorade?! If you don't like a particular brand or model, move on. If I had the money I would be pleased to have the problem of choosing the right cat at this price point.

As I alwsys say when I get down on things or life " First world problems Brian,.... first world problems..."

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Old 03-09-2012, 21:37   #38
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

Walked through both boats ... Gunboat in South Africa and Outremer in the USA at Miami.

Undoubtedly, for a performance boat, Ana and I fell in love with the Outremer !
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:43   #39
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

Welcome to CF Mr Johnstone,your boats are awesome!

Any trimarans in the pipeline?

Cheers,
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:20   #40
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

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Originally Posted by bgriffin View Post
Simple. When I look at a Gunboat 60 photo my heart rate triples and my knees go weak. When I look at an Outremer 5X photo none of that happens.
I know this answer, since it takes my breath away as well! If you have enough funds, the boat that gives you the biggest, well, gentleman excitement(!) is the one to choose.

As for Peter's reply, thanks a lot -first. The GB60 looks awesome and I know for a fact from their "standard equipment list", it's filled with more that what he says. The only problem that I can see is that the salon is smaller than previous Gunboats but it makes up for it more than enough with upgrading the cabins from "couffin" sized bunks to serious cruising cat sizes, well done!

If I had found the time, I would surely flown to Xiamen already and hopped on the boat, however, if you're aiming for these ladies, time is a bit harder to find than the funds... (No, I don't want to be an a.h., just simple observation...)

Last but certainly not least -at least for this post-, I know for a fact that Peter answers each and every question about Gunboats himself, which is a huge plus for both PR and confidence. I remember trying to get a very simple answer from Nautor Swan about ten years ago for 6 months! And when you're paying millions, you expect to see this kind of professionalism and attention.


P.S. : Wouldn't it be great to get these informative replies from all the company owners?
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:36   #41
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

Some companies need to do it and some companies don't need to do it - that simple. Just face the facts - how many Gunboats exist ? How many Lagoons 560 and 620 exist ? But the point is Lagoon makes money with the small ones and the biggies are just PR.

So if a "CEO" answers your emails that doesn't mean he is super friendly !

And in your case - may be Nautor Swan just knew that you are not their customers.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:50   #42
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

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Some companies need to do it and some companies don't need to do it - that simple. Just face the facts - how many Gunboats exist ? How many Lagoons 560 and 620 exist ? But the point is Lagoon makes money with the small ones and the biggies are just PR.

So if a "CEO" answers your emails that doesn't mean he is super friendly !

And in your case - may be Nautor Swan just knew that you are not their customers.
I don't mind if the CEO/owner is friendly or not. I care if I get an answer when I ask a questions prior to purchase. And if a company -Swan- rejects to answer even the simplest question and expect the customer to come to their facilities or such every time, well, great boats but I wouldn't be one of "their customers"...
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:38   #43
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Re: Why choose Gunboat 60 over Outremer 5X?

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Originally Posted by Peter.Johnstone View Post
Thanks everyone for the comments and questions. Several points:

We have been building Gunboats for 12 years, and have done several series in this size range. We know our weights, and we know our owner payloads. We have watched many aspiring competitors come and go. Many start with overly optimistic claims of performance and weight. We meet our weights. The Gunboat 60 is within 80kgs of her designed weight, and she is capable of a nearly 3 ton payload for world cruising. Most world cruisers will need every ounce of that payload. Most competitors do not offer enough payload for their owners. Their payloads end up getting used by options... Our lightship weight calculations include everything for world cruising less the consumables and people. The RIB is in there, all of the options available. We do not mess around with marketing BS on this subject. There are many race results available to check our performance against others who claim to be lighter or better performing...so far no one in the world cruising cat category has stacked up. You can achieve lighter, but it is simply a question of which comfort or convenience you wish to sacrifice. If you want to camp, we can easily beat anyone's weights!

The Gunboat 60 is intended as a self sufficient world cruiser, first and foremost. She is comfortable and carries every amenity including washer/dryer, full aircon, gourmet galley, crew quarters, four cabins, four heads, etc. Feature for feature, I can assure you that no one will compare on the amenities that come standard and are already in the weight calculation. Performance-wise, the Gunboat 60 is within 1-2% of her renown Gunboat 66 sister series. In some conditions, the 60 will be quicker, and in some the 66 will be quicker. I can tell you from the preliminary sea trials that the Gunboat 60 is a significant jump forward for Gunboat from its prior work. The new designs are faster, smoother, and pitch even less. Our design team has the most extensive knowledge and database on this size range in the market. Nigel Irens has delivered everything he promised.

The build quality of our Gunboat 60 is amongst our best to date. It really does not matter where Gunboat builds its boats. We always achieve a world leading standard due to our specifications, designs, oversight, and management. Gunboats have been built in four yards in South Africa, one in China, and one in the US. We have achieved excellent results in each and every yard...the country does not matter...unless you are a bigot!

On comparable weights, the Gunboat 60 series is lighter than the Gunboat 62 or 66 series, despite having significantly more furniture, luxuries and amenities included. Our structures are 100% carbon, epoxy and core cell. These are the best materials available today. Our resin ratios are very carefully controlled and are at grand prix race boat ratios to the fibers. The infusion process allows to duplicate our ratios and engineering precisely. It is in our opinion, the best process for a high tech world cruiser to achieve the highest quality laminate.

All of our Gunboat series are designed and engineered for world cruising. I love the armchair pontifications and judgements from folks who have not sailed a Gunboat. Case in point is the Gunboat 55. She is designed to the be the largest cat that a couple can world cruise as owner-operators without relying on crew or occassional help. The inspiration for the Gunboat 55 came directly from our renown Gunboat 48 series. An owner in Finland cruises his Gunboat 48 for 9 months out of the year in their archipelago. Rather than be limited to their salon, they enclosed the aft cockpit and found that it was no problem to seal out the winter and have one great big open space to make the salon and aft cockpit all interior. With their success, an idea became immediately apparent. Why not get rid of the door bulkhead and create one large convertible space? Let's face it, any of us who lived aboard and done some years cruising, know exactly how the boats are used. You step aboard, and you open the doors and windows from the salon to the aft cockpit, and you never close them until you leave the boat, so what is the point? We may as well have one giant space that can be opened up at the aft end. If you cruise colder climates, or get some muggy rainy weather, seal it off and turn on the aircon or heat. Our Gunboat 48 in Finland was already a successfully proven concept. The Gunboat 55 leapfrogs the idea one step further and opens up the space dramatically.

Before you raise the security question, let me point out that any sliding door on any cat is not secure. A crowbar can open it in two seconds. The Gunboat 55 has lockable and very secure companionway doors into each hull, so the ultimate security of the Gunboat 55 interior is quite a bit more substantial than a typical cat.

Coming back to the point of the thread, Gunboat offers two excellent solutions for world cruising. The 55 is likely a more direct comparison to the Outremer 5X in terms of comfort and space. Yet we deliver an all carbon structure with all epoxy resins. In summary, we deliver a boat with superior materials and finish at a similar price.

The Gunboat 60 is the ultimate in performance, luxury, finish and quality for the family going around the world.

In either case, buyers of Gunboats expect the absolute best. They are not so concerned with getting the lowest price. We certainly cannot charge less. Our materials alone cost more than competitors' retail pricing. It is a low margin business fueled by our passion to deliver the best available. Our record should be pretty clear to everyone. Our boats have sailed over 2 million miles without a major structural issue. We put in the time with every owner and crew to make sure they really understand their Gunboat. If you step aboard, or really take the time to see how we do things, I think you will agree that no one compares on any level. Any of you are invited to come see our production in NC or in Xiamen.

If you are coming to the Annapolis Show in October, please be sure to make an appointment through Gunboat. Whatever Gunboat we bring always has a line of 45-90 minutes long to board. I would hate to have anyone serious about Gunboat having to wait.
Thanks for the update. Have any Gunboats sailed up the West Coast to Seattle ??
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Old 04-09-2012, 14:56   #44
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The country does matter!

With all due respect to Peter Johnstone I disagree with his statement that the (manufacturing) country doesn't matter. It does. At least to me.

PS I still like your boats.
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Old 04-09-2012, 20:23   #45
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Re: Why Choose Gunboat 60 Over Outremer 5X?

Disagree Sand Crab - if quality assurance is done (the build process is "supervised" with lets say ISO xy) then I would not have any issues. Unless you would say Chinese and US air to dry the hull is "the" difference.

Or put it that way : why are US cars so "extremely" sought in other countries - may be because they are known to be crap (?!) ... :-) ... here in Europe we prefer the Asian cars as 2nd option !
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