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Old 11-01-2015, 14:46   #16
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

Well, many of the folks operating ferries seem to have seen the light. You see these things all over the Carib going fast and hardly causing a ripple....
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Old 11-01-2015, 14:51   #17
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

I've wondered the same thing for years. First time I saw a huge 60ish foot moorings power cat come into the bay, the first thing I thought is "charter sailing is dead".


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Old 11-01-2015, 14:53   #18
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

I'm not sure the space gain is there on powercats compared to monos like Defevers, Nordhavn, etc. At least not on the ones I have been on. Those power boat hulls are deeper and wider than mono sailboats and they typically work on two or three levels.

Power cats are essentially sail cats in hull volume. Maybe a bit more for some, but lots less for others - depending on the performance level chosen. For example, look at Malcom Tenet power cats.

Aside from the volume thing, I don't see any other aspect of power monos that are more favorable. Maybe the motion underway in a seaway of a mono with active stabilizers is more comfortable (guessing - I haven't been on one with stabilizers in use)?

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Old 11-01-2015, 15:18   #19
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Puzzles me too. Radically more efficient...just watch a typical mid-sized mono power vessel and the huge wake they create...I always wonder how many GPH of wasted energy it takes just to make that wake. On the Rio Dulce they are called "Rio Tsunamis". I think the ricos in their big Sea Rays actually enjoy watching all the silly gringo sailors in the marinas thrash about as they plow by (there's one reason to stick with a mono).

There is one Lagoon power cat on the Rio....it just hums on by with almost no wake.

A friend of mine switched from power mono to power cat....now burns half the fuel and cruises twice as fast.
Interesting thing about wakes:
When I was in Ft Lauderdale for the holidays, they have a big boat parade on the ICW there. Like 150 ft motoryachts with live tigers on the bow etc!
Here's my point, they keep them all moving at pretty much the same speed; but there was a night and day difference between boats. We were in the dingy alongside the ICW to watch the show... so it was real evident which boats had a huge wake and which had almost no wake at all.
Prior to that I had no idea how radically the design changed the wake!
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Old 11-01-2015, 15:24   #20
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

In the Rio Dulce, it has nothing to do with design. Those ricos stand on the throttle until just 0.000005kts away from coming up on plane. The boats have their bows straight up in the air, and are sunk in their wavefront up to the portholes.

They do it on purpose. We had a wake come into a marina so large that it picked up a catamaran and sat it right on the dock. Two monos (not in adjacent docks!) had bad mast damage because they rolled until their masts crossed and rigging caught.

I have had much smoother passages in the tradewinds.

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Old 11-01-2015, 15:26   #21
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I'm not sure the space gain is there on powercats compared to monos like Defevers, Nordhavn, etc. At least not on the ones I have been on. Those power boat hulls are deeper and wider than mono sailboats and they typically work on two or three levels.

Power cats are essentially sail cats in hull volume. Maybe a bit more for some, but lots less for others - depending on the performance level chosen. For example, look at Malcom Tenet power cats.

Aside from the volume thing, I don't see any other aspect of power monos that are more favorable. Maybe the motion underway in a seaway of a mono with active stabilizers is more comfortable (guessing - I haven't been on one with stabilizers in use)?

Mark
With stabilizers, maybe. A friend of mine recently delivered a 90+ foot Princess motoryacht (with no stabilizers) from Melbourne to Sydney.

At the north end of Bass strait, they were motoring at about 8 knots (trying to save fuel) in a 20 knot beam wind and sea, rolling deeply, and he told the owner - "Right now we'd be more comfortable in my 40 foot sailing cat, we'd be going faster, and we'd be using no fuel."


The owner had hired a "Hostess" to prepare food etc for the crew. She was seasick the whole trip. They ate sandwiches.
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Old 11-01-2015, 15:32   #22
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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In the Rio Dulce, it has nothing to do with design. Those ricos stand on the throttle until just 0.000005kts away from coming up on plane. The boats have their bows straight up in the air, and are sunk in their wavefront up to the portholes.

They do it on purpose. We had a wake come into a marina so large that it picked up a catamaran and sat it right on the dock. Two monos (not in adjacent docks!) had bad mast damage because they rolled until their masts crossed and rigging caught.

I have had much smoother passages in the tradewinds.

Mark
In Qld there is legislation where owners of powerboats can now be held liable for any damage their wake causes. Proving it might be tricky, but with everyone using go-pro's all the time, it could be do-able.

And amazingly, we've now have powerboats slow right down as they pass!

I give these guys a big wave of thanks!
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Old 11-01-2015, 15:36   #23
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

Here's an 80+ foot powercat at speed, virtually no wake. Bob Oram designed.


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Old 11-01-2015, 16:18   #24
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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Here's an 80+ foot powercat at speed, virtually no wake. Bob Oram designed.


Yes 80ft+ with rediculeously small motors. I think less than 500hp.

Stephan the owner has done a lot of powerboat racing and has challenged anyone with a monohull powerboat to race Brisbane to Sydney but can't get any takers.

In Australia percentage wise there are many more large cat powerboats than in Europe or USA. They are a relative new phenomenon in boating and we will see a lot more.

Malcom Tennant from NZ and Lock Crowther (Aust) both now deceased were amongst the early advocates and the concept has been taken up with many designers.
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Old 11-01-2015, 16:45   #25
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

44'
I was not aware of that legislation.
A lot of the big power boat tossers at and around the popular Whitsunday anchorages caused me to spill some expensive wine and spirits more than once with their flat out attitude and resultant Tsunami type wakes.I did also note that their radios often did not work.
Camera at hand next time to prove the damage
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Old 11-01-2015, 16:46   #26
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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Sailing cats have taken a significant percent of the sailing market, but seem to lag far behind in the power cruising market. Why? You can achieve full displacement efficiency yet achieve speeds of 20 knots or so as well. Plus the usual advantages of cats like stability at anchor, space per linear foot, etc.


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Not sure I'd agree with that statement. Cats still make up a miniscule percentage of the sailing market. have a look around you might see 1 or 2 max when PDQ was still in business they sold only a few power cats in comparison to all of the sailing cats they built.
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Old 11-01-2015, 21:42   #27
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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Not sure I'd agree with that statement. Cats still make up a miniscule percentage of the sailing market. have a look around you might see 1 or 2 max when PDQ was still in business they sold only a few power cats in comparison to all of the sailing cats they built.
Depends where "around" is, I guess. Certainly not the Caribbean. Not even at the top of this page!

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Old 11-01-2015, 21:46   #28
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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Depends where "around" is, I guess. Certainly not the Caribbean. Not even at the top of this page!

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Not in Australia. Virtually all the fast ferries here are catamarans on the GBR and in rivers and harbours such as Brisbane, Sydney, Hobart.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:01   #29
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

I don't think it's always a conscious decision about which hull form is "better" using whatever criteria... I think it's still more influenced by market age.

For instance I can find several Hatteras 48' LRCs or 58' Yachtfishers for prices I could afford if I chose (hmmm... I think), but these are 30-35 years old. I suspect most of the powercats in larger sizes (equivalent volumes) like this are much newer, hence not yet "affordable" at the same income levels.

The same phenomenon applies to simply moving up, in monohull powerboats. There aren't many with some key features we value, most are at least 5-8 years newer than ours, not yet within $$ reach.

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Old 12-01-2015, 06:38   #30
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Re: Why are cats not as popular for powercruisiers?

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I don't think it's always a conscious decision about which hull form is "better" using whatever criteria... I think it's still more influenced by market age.

For instance I can find several Hatteras 48' LRCs or 58' Yachtfishers for prices I could afford if I chose (hmmm... I think), but these are 30-35 years old. I suspect most of the powercats in larger sizes (equivalent volumes) like this are much newer, hence not yet "affordable" at the same income levels.

The same phenomenon applies to simply moving up, in monohull powerboats. There aren't many with some key features we value, most are at least 5-8 years newer than ours, not yet within $$ reach.

-Chris
I agree with this. It's the market curves and the sail cat market came on strong probably 15-20yrs before the power cat market developed. Just like we are only now getting acceptance of sail cats among the sailing community, power cats are still not accepted. The used market being much smaller works against the acceptance.

Also the fuel efficency gains in a dedicated power cat that can run at 20kts, are probably a lot less than you think. As long as you keep the throttle under control, a mono-trawler does pretty good and if you have the ability to do 20kts, most owners can't resist using that speed.
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