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Old 30-03-2014, 17:32   #76
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I have to agree with the others Mark. I just can't see what a picture of a deep reefed Seawind 1160 sailing at 6 knots in what seem to be quite light conditions has to do with this thread.
Because he could post another nice picture. Thanks!
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Old 31-03-2014, 11:23   #77
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

So I took Sunday and Monday off. I took the time to assess the current Cat sales in the UK and France and the Netherlands, to see if anything looked good, as well as going through Kyeros property listings in Spain to see if any front line properties with berths looked appealing.

The Spanish Market is bad. Whatever you read about recovery is tosh.

Right now, anyone can rent a 2 bed 2 bath apartment in prime coastal area for @ 200 sterling a month ($300) up to whatever they want to pay.

Front line houses (sales) with berth are holding retail price but given the rest of the market is very soft, (rentals costs being an indicator) It doesnt make sense to purchase anything until it settles out. Not to mention strict new laws on renting property at huge taxes.




Back to boats:

I set my budget at $100K or 72000EUR I set my MAXIMUM size at 10 metres.
.
I noted the purchase choices for an up to 10metre vessel in the EU are limited.
It is Prout, Catalac, FisherCat, Iroquois and Heavenly twins.

No Geminis or other smaller manufactures. Politics and V.A.T. get right in the way.

If I up my vessel size to 11 or 12 metres, then my choice becomes more plentiful, even if the price rises to the top end of the budget.

I dont want to up my size requirements.

If I triple the budget, my choice is better, but will not be European set up boats in that size range.

So I looked at "importing" a vessel and just paying the VAT. It gets expensive at @30% added to the price, plus will require a complete rewire for 230V, all the interior electrical equipment changed and a major pain in the arse to do. Not to mention, will require a C.E. certificate for use and a full inspection and approval for insurance. Add another $20K

So.......

It looks like there is a market for a European manufacturer to make a good 30-34 foot vessel if priced correctly.

It looks like the ONLY choice I have is to:
  • change my vessel size upwards
  • pay more upfront for something I dont really want
  • pay more expensive marina fees
  • pay larger ongoing costs
  • or buy a Catalac.
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Old 31-03-2014, 22:51   #78
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Whilst the Australian market isn't as soft as the rest of the worlds we do have 240V mains if that helps ?
And probably a different range of boats to consider.

Catamarans for Sale Under $100k | Multihull Yacht Sales Australia

Sail Catamarans 31ft > 35ft | Used Yachts For Sale | Yachthub
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:07   #79
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by Redreuben View Post
Whilst the Australian market isn't as soft as the rest of the worlds we do have 240V mains if that helps ?
And probably a different range of boats to consider.

Catamarans for Sale Under $100k | Multihull Yacht Sales Australia

Sail Catamarans 31ft > 35ft | Used Yachts For Sale | Yachthub
and 20% Vat and 7% import duty and the cost of getting it here and upgrading to european C.E. standards. Its a bummer. I love Aus and South African Cats.
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Old 01-04-2014, 10:24   #80
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Weavis, is there any reason you have not included the Solaris Sunstar 32 as it was built in the UK and is under 10 meters? In addition, have you considered the Sailcraft Comanche 32 - a boat that is a heavier, more stable cruising boat by the manufactuer of the Iroquois, also built in the UK.

Is there a particular reason you refuse to go up to 11 meters, especially if the cost is within your range? This would include the Cherokee 35 and the Sunstar 36, also built in the UK? It would also include the 35 foot Comanche 105 - a gorgeous, well-built upgrade on the 32 with sugar scoop, stepped transoms and great bridgedeck clearance.

Frankly, the difference in maintenance cost for a 35- 36 foot cat as opposed to a 32 foot cat is not that substantial; indeed, it will be less on the longer cat if its original condition is better. Really, LOA is only one indicator of the size of a boat and its maintenance costs. The Comanche 105, for example, was a lengthened 32 and the size of rigging/sails etc. was scarcely any different than its predecessor.

Brad
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Old 01-04-2014, 14:24   #81
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Weavis, is there any reason you have not included the Solaris Sunstar 32 as it was built in the UK and is under 10 meters? In addition, have you considered the Sailcraft Comanche 32 - a boat that is a heavier, more stable cruising boat by the manufactuer of the Iroquois, also built in the UK.

Is there a particular reason you refuse to go up to 11 meters, especially if the cost is within your range? This would include the Cherokee 35 and the Sunstar 36, also built in the UK? It would also include the 35 foot Comanche 105 - a gorgeous, well-built upgrade on the 32 with sugar scoop, stepped transoms and great bridgedeck clearance.

Frankly, the difference in maintenance cost for a 35- 36 foot cat as opposed to a 32 foot cat is not that substantial; indeed, it will be less on the longer cat if its original condition is better. Really, LOA is only one indicator of the size of a boat and its maintenance costs. The Comanche 105, for example, was a lengthened 32 and the size of rigging/sails etc. was scarcely any different than its predecessor.

Brad
Hi Brad
These vessels are NOT available easily. I have not dismissed ANY vessel in my lead up to purchase, but in scouring the EUROPEAN sales as well as the British, I see in the main ONLY the vessels I have mentioned.
As for moving up to 11 meters, I am flying out to Spain and the Islands in the next 6 weeks, and I will get chance to try out a larger cat or two and see if Im happy single handing...... Also will be discussing the possiblilty of a private berth being avaialable for next year...... size and price to be negotiated.

I worked out last year when I priced the difference per annum on marinas and stuff, it was a $20K difference between a 10 meter and an 11 and 12m where I want to be in the Med. Still, Time yet for all things to happen.

(Im a believer in being as small as is required rather than as large as desired)

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Old 01-04-2014, 14:36   #82
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Hi Brad
These vessels are NOT available easily. I have not dismissed ANY vessel in my lead up to purchase, but in scouring the EUROPEAN sales as well as the British, I see in the main ONLY the vessels I have mentioned.
As for moving up to 11 meters, I am flying out to Spain and the Islands in the next 6 weeks, and I will get chance to try out a larger cat or two and see if Im happy single handing...... Also will be discussing the possiblilty of a private berth being avaialable for next year...... size and price to be negotiated.

I worked out last year when I priced the difference per annum on marinas and stuff, it was a $20K difference between a 10 meter and an 11 and 12m where I want to be in the Med. Still, Time yet for all things to happen.

(Im a believer in being as small as is required rather than as large as desired)

Ah, you will need some help with these decisions. I will meet you in Palma, then we go to Ibiza to consider the options. ha ha ha
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Old 01-04-2014, 14:40   #83
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by oceannavigator View Post
Ah, you will need some help with these decisions. I will meet you in Palma, then we go to Ibiza to consider the options. ha ha ha
Lol.. I will let you know when Im going.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:29   #84
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

I wasn't suggesting that they were readily available - indeed, they were made in relatively small numbers. As to the difference in cost for docking - WOW!

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Old 03-04-2014, 07:05   #85
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Normal production cats start from 36ft... Look at FP Mahe and Lagoon 380, FP Athena...
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:31   #86
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Normal production cats start from 36ft... Look at FP Mahe and Lagoon 380, FP Athena...

Is normal always good?


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Old 03-04-2014, 07:35   #87
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Normal production cats start from 36ft... Look at FP Mahe and Lagoon 380, FP Athena...
Huh?

I can come up with at least half a dozen production cats below 36'.

You may or may not like them, but they certainly start smaller.
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Old 13-04-2014, 06:52   #88
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Really, another Cat vs mono thread? Yawn...
So if you are not interested, why are are you reading the thread?

Thanks to everybody making intelligent comments.

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Old 13-04-2014, 08:30   #89
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Normal production cats start from 36ft... Look at FP Mahe and Lagoon 380, FP Athena...
By Normal do you mean French charter cats? My boat is 10.85 metres you think if I add 300 mm it will make it normal? What about the FP Tobago, its 200mm shorter than my boat - is it really abnormal?
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