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Old 27-03-2014, 14:46   #31
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceannavigator View Post
Lol... yeah, that's what I thought. When you actually know what you are talking about, then you can call my post absurd. Thanks.
How many "cruising monohulls" ...all of them apparently...have you sailed in or against with heavily loaded Catalcs to make your ridiculous (absurd if you prefer) statement.
I am participating in a general discussion of "Why a Catamaran"... have you even read the OP's original post?... do you actually know what you are talking about?

lol.... your welcome

Bob
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Old 27-03-2014, 14:46   #32
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
I'm confused by some of these. Wouldn't you need to "cram" everything away on a catamaran too? In fact, most of them have fewer storage spaces to put things. And aren't monohulls easy to handle yourself? In fact easier in some cases, because you have better visibility from the helm.

I am torn between monohulls and cats, and the more I research the issue I find out that the differences aren't as great as I first was told.

Catamarans do have a much better view from the saloon, but monohulls have a better view from the cockpit (the bridgedeck isn't in the way).

For cruising, the speed advantage of catamarans is usually a wash, because a cat loaded for a long cruise will suffer from the weight, while it matters little on a monohull.

At first glance, cats seem to have more space, but they really don't. Because a 37' cataraman is really more comparable to a 45' monohull. That monohull will have a smaller cockpit, but generally a more roomy salon and galley.

Here are the real advantages of cats, as I see them:

1. Better stability
2. Better cabin privacy (cabins separated by the bridgedeck)
3. Better bathroom privacy (except in charter cats, the main head is usually separated on the other end of the hull, instead of right next to the owner's cabin, like in a monohull).
4. No fear of sinking from the heavy ballast
5. Can enter shallow waters, you can even beach it (with some).
On a cat, you don't have t put everything away before you go sailing. And cats do have lots of storage space. Usually both ends of the hulls are storage, and oten across the front of the bridgedeck. Also the usual under seat and under berth areas.

I keep reading how badly our boat's performance will suffer when we load it up. Good thing the boat doesn't read! Our performance remains very good. Going to Vanuatu, we were carrying as much as any of the mono's, (probably more) but we arrived at Huon reef (800 mile passage) 24 hours before the first of them. These were all performance oriented mono's too - Farr designed ex-race boats and the like.
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Old 27-03-2014, 14:46   #33
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceannavigator View Post
Good Points:

Built like a tank -

Bad Points:

A little over built in terms of weight
Thanks for that.
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Old 27-03-2014, 14:50   #34
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

HI Rescat
I love the Catana
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Old 27-03-2014, 14:52   #35
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by REsCat View Post
How many "cruising monohulls" ...all of them apparently...have you sailed in or against with heavily loaded Catalcs to make your ridiculous (absurd if you prefer) statement.
I am participating in a general discussion of "Why a Catamaran"... have you even read the OP's original post?... do you actually know what you are talking about?

lol.... your welcome

Bob
Bob, all of my cruising monohulls had knot logs. I know... a miracle of modern technology and amazing that I can remember the boat speed from one boat to the next, being as dumb as I am, isn't it?

Settle down, buddy. You haven't a valid shred of experience with the boats in question. Not all catamarans behave like a Catana don't you know....
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Old 27-03-2014, 16:43   #36
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by oceannavigator View Post
You might come in a little under 7 knots ifyou load her with gear. My 10 meter Catalac performed at the levels I indicated, loaded. I could eeek out 8 knots if I was careful to remove everything. A TPI built lagoon (from the other thread) is several steps up in performance, seakindliness and overall accommodation.

What kind of winds would you have to get 7-8 out of the 10m. I've sailed on one and sailed with one and it was a very slow cat.


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Old 27-03-2014, 19:49   #37
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Thanks Weavis, I like some Catanas, not all of them... I even like mine... most of the time...

Okay oceannavigator, here's the deal, You made a statement, I asked you to clarify it, you maintained that " A heavily loaded Catalac will be about the same speed as a monohull"
then clarified that to "Cruising monohulls, in general"
In my books that's a broad ,general statement... no different than Lagoons are "condomarans" or "slow"
I replied that I find that statement ridiculous and irrelevant to the thread... I didn't call you stupid, I have no knowledge of your history or ownership of Catalcs, or monohulls, cruising monohulls or you!
You then say I have no shred of experience with the boats in question: Catalcs, monohulls, cruising monohulls... because you know me??
know my history with boats ?, or monohulls?, or cruising monohulls? and then close by criticizing me because of the type of boat I own ??
I do know.... and agree with your last statement ..by the way

So I'm done on this disagreement but I did call you on this and yes... I guess I did criticize you too, so my apologies for that

Bob
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Old 28-03-2014, 01:38   #38
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Ok........So we are agreed that I like Catamarans and some others like them too

To move this on from disputes over characteristics of the Catalac series, Perhaps those among us, of could recommend a marque of < 37 foot catamarans that in their experience is a good solid stable vessel with desired characteristics. (I want to keep the purchase price as close to $100-150K) but need to know what boats are good to look for in case someone decides to unload one quick for financial reasons.

Ive looked at Prout, Gemini and Catalac in some detail... now its time to look at others from suggestions.
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Old 28-03-2014, 04:10   #39
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

All have compromises, most cruising cats loaded up will be 6-7 knot boats in 12-15 and depending heavily on point of sail. Those same boats may gain 1-2 knots in 20+ , the difference is that they are so much more comfortable. Being heeled 15-20 degrees for hours -days on end sucks and bobbing around in a marina or on the hook sucks too. This is why we changed to cats. Have had an Endeavourcat , a Ami Renaissance 320 (great little boat!) And now a leopard 38. The only point of sale a mono can even potentially claim more comfort is beating to weather and even that sucks in Terms of comfort. You find a lot of boat in your range but Be cautious its easy to spend another 10-20k in upgrades and refit. Rigging alone for our 38 is 7k. On our 30 and 32 it was under 2k, the larger the cat everything costs exponentially more. And while i could single hand the 38, the others were much easier and i could dock the smaller cats myself no problem. A 20k lb cat not so easy..... You should look at the catalac 12m great boat under your budget. You could find a Lagoon 38 or island spirit or privilige37-39, endeavourcat 34-36 . there was a cheap project Island packet 35 huge tank of a cat in the caribe for under 40k. You could even find FP Athena in your range. Or spend less and go smaller! I would have prefered to keep and stay living aboard our 32. the admiral wanted bigger. I particularly don't care for Prouts anymore. I have looked at several.

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Old 28-03-2014, 04:49   #40
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
You could find a Lagoon 38 or island spirit or privilige37-39, endeavourcat 34-36 . there was a cheap project Island packet 35 huge tank of a cat in the caribe for under 40k. You could even find FP Athena in your range. Or spend less and go smaller! I would have prefered to keep and stay living aboard our 32. the admiral wanted bigger. I particularly don't care for Prouts anymore. I have looked at several.

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Thank you. Your experienced comments resonated with my own inclinations for staying on the smaller side. Its not just the purchase cost. I believe that is the cheapest part of sailing.
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Old 28-03-2014, 04:56   #41
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

I have an Endeavourcat 36. It would be very good for your needs, but there are not that many around, and only a couple for sale at any given time. I don't know if you could find one in Europe, plus it is a 110v AC boat, not 220.

I love my EndeavourCat. Twin diesels, excellent maneuverability in marinas, very roomy yet doesn't look huge like many cats. It has 7'+ headroom everywhere! and the foot of every berth is open for long legs to dangle over. It's a narrow cat, 15' beam, so it will fit in a slip.

We got the boat last year and haven't done much pure sailing on it yet. My husband is a passionate fisherman, and we mostly motorsailed last year so he could concentrate on fishing. This year we will do more sailing. He wants to fish further offshore and we will sail out and back.

The main is huge, with one reef point. The jib is small and self-tending. We also have a spinnaker, which we haven't flown yet. With a decent breeze, the boat moves well. It's faster than my Pearson 27, a light displacement monohull, but not comparable to the Corsair F-24 trimaran I used to own (of course!).
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Old 28-03-2014, 09:24   #42
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

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Originally Posted by bethflkys View Post
I have an Endeavourcat 36. It would be very good for your needs, but there are not that many around, and only a couple for sale at any given time. I don't know if you could find one in Europe, plus it is a 110v AC boat, not 220.
.
Not plentiful in Europe as your surmised.
Nice Cat though
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Old 28-03-2014, 14:30   #43
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Weavis, I would recommend that you take a look at the following boats:

Solaris Sunstar 32 and Sunstar 36 - these were based upon Erik Lerouge designs and have solid performance with decent bridgedeck clearance and shape. While heavier than Lerouge would have preferrred, they were very solidly built in Southampton England by Solaris Yachts. SMJ, who has posted on this thread, was a former owner of a Sunstar 36 and I suspect will echo this opinion.

Solaris Sunrise 36 - this is a completely different boat and while it has the same solid construction as other Solaris Yachts (and decent accomodation), it is short on bridgedeck clearance and performance. Nevertheless, for your intended use, it could work quite nicely.

Cherokee 35 - Another British cat, this one from the 70's. Again, decent build quality, performance and accomodation. The only negatives are:
1. the rudders are mounted aft of the transoms, which can be risky in med-moor situations.
2. there is a transverse brace crossing the sole in the saloon that can be a hassle.
3. the single diesel again relied upon a sonic drive, with all that entails. That being said, a number were retrofitted with outboards that will work quite well with the design.
4. the double berths are smaller than those that span part of the bridgedeck (all berths are inside the hulls).

I believe that SMJ may have owned one of these as well. In fact, in his long string of cats I seem to recall he also owned...

a Fishercat 30. Another well-built British cat with decent accomodation for its size but performance that was - well - ok for a motorsailor.

Solaris Sunstream 40 - this boat was based upon the Cherokee 35 and eliminates all the criticisms listed above. By lengthening the hulls/bridgedeck aft, they were able to have aft doubles over the bridgedeck (virtually queen size) with a separate seating area in the aft cabins. The were also able to move the mast back to the companionway to eliminate the cross brace and enable a cutter rig. They were also able to install twin diesels and to move the rudders under the hull on partial skegs. Like the other Solaris yachts, very well built. This may be a bit bigger than you are looking for.

Brad
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Old 28-03-2014, 14:48   #44
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Weavis, I would recommend that you take a look at the following boats:

Solaris Sunstar 32 and Sunstar 36 -

Solaris Sunrise 36 -

Cherokee 35 -


a Fishercat 30. Another well-built British cat with decent accomodation for its size but performance that was - well - ok for a motorsailor.

Solaris Sunstream 40 -

Brad
Thanks Brad.
Its on my list to look at later on tonight when Ive finished up in the office.
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Old 28-03-2014, 15:40   #45
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Re: Why a Catamaran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Weavis, I would recommend that you take a look at the following boats:

Solaris Sunstar 32 and Sunstar 36 - these were based upon Erik Lerouge designs and have solid performance with decent bridgedeck clearance and shape. While heavier than Lerouge would have preferrred, they were very solidly built in Southampton England by Solaris Yachts. SMJ, who has posted on this thread, was a former owner of a Sunstar 36 and I suspect will echo this opinion.

Solaris Sunrise 36 - this is a completely different boat and while it has the same solid construction as other Solaris Yachts (and decent accomodation), it is short on bridgedeck clearance and performance. Nevertheless, for your intended use, it could work quite nicely.

Cherokee 35 - Another British cat, this one from the 70's. Again, decent build quality, performance and accomodation. The only negatives are:
1. the rudders are mounted aft of the transoms, which can be risky in med-moor situations.
2. there is a transverse brace crossing the sole in the saloon that can be a hassle.
3. the single diesel again relied upon a sonic drive, with all that entails. That being said, a number were retrofitted with outboards that will work quite well with the design.
4. the double berths are smaller than those that span part of the bridgedeck (all berths are inside the hulls).

I believe that SMJ may have owned one of these as well. In fact, in his long string of cats I seem to recall he also owned...

a Fishercat 30. Another well-built British cat with decent accomodation for its size but performance that was - well - ok for a motorsailor.

Solaris Sunstream 40 - this boat was based upon the Cherokee 35 and eliminates all the criticisms listed above. By lengthening the hulls/bridgedeck aft, they were able to have aft doubles over the bridgedeck (virtually queen size) with a separate seating area in the aft cabins. The were also able to move the mast back to the companionway to eliminate the cross brace and enable a cutter rig. They were also able to install twin diesels and to move the rudders under the hull on partial skegs. Like the other Solaris yachts, very well built. This may be a bit bigger than you are looking for.

Brad

I believe both our old Solaris Sunstar and Cherokee are back on the market. I've got contact info for the Solaris but not the Cherokee. We did own a Catfisher 32 but couldn't recommend it.


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