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Old 13-10-2015, 15:26   #106
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Re: Who's Going To Annapolis 2015?

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Factor,

👍👍👍 on your comments. The 4.3 is just so clearly a charter design that you would think it was obvious. Buyers are driving the cat industry away from good sailing performance and seaworthiness to such a degree that there is a rush to the bottom going on.

One vendor at the show told me that the number of people who asked him questions about performance, handling, build quality, anchoring system or sail material in the last 2 years was....wait for it.... 3 people! No wonder we are getting what we are getting.. The manufacturers are getting the message that Corian is more important than Construction, that pretty fittings & bling is more important than sailing characteristics, etc ad nauseum.

I was shocked to see display boats with cooked gel coat (Helia 44), halo rings everywhere and joints peeling (Fusion 40), large composite panels hollowed (Balance 451), poor fit & finish (too numerous to mention), power panel switches where they can be bumped, boats with bulkheads not tabbed to hull, and so forth.

The best execution I saw were the Alpha 42, the Neel 45, and the Outremer 51 outshone the others as a real cruising boat. These had good equipment levels, good construction, good SA to DWL Displacement, well thought out deck layouts, and nicely finished. Quality boats for sailors.

I was underwhelmed by most of the boats, and second Factors comment about the direction the industry is taking with the charter design ethic of cattlemarans. This was my first U.S. boat show, and from talking to many of the other potential buyers there, as you do, it seems like an education course on what is important in a good cruising cat would be a great contribution. I heard such rubbish from some of the boat sales staff that they should put Buyer Beware signs up. Just my impression, mind you.


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BigBeakie said >"I was shocked to see display boats with cooked gel coat (Helia 44), halo rings everywhere and joints peeling (Fusion 40), large composite panels hollowed (Balance 451), poor fit & finish (too numerous to mention), power panel switches where they can be bumped, boats with bulkheads not tabbed to hull, and so forth."

Can you explain or better yet post a photo of what these conditions look like? Except for the, "poor fit & finish (too numerous to mention), power panel switches where they can be bumped, boats with bulkheads not tabbed to hull, and so forth." ones I am not familiar with the other issues.

As an aside, if one wants to see really nice quality 'Fit N Finish' on boats, look at what Sage Marine is doing in small boats (15 & 17Ft); and Dragonfly Tri's. I'd have to agree that i did see some of the 'poor fit n finish' on what I percieved in the past as 'High End Boats' ie large cats; though to be fair there were plenty of noticable defects on a variety of the monohull brands I boarded also.

The best execution I saw were the Alpha 42, the Neel 45, and the Outremer 51 outshone the others as a real cruising boat. These had good equipment levels, good construction, good SA to DWL Displacement, well thought out deck layouts, and nicely finished. Quality boats for sailors. Have to agree 'Archer' was one of my show favorites.

I could not believe that the Show put both, Gunboat and Balance/HH cats on the same dock?!?! Pretty daring if you ask me as GB is in a lawsuit with their own chinese factory and (I believe HH/Balance cats) GB had a large placard display in front of their stand. The central placard started with some crack..'Bad Fortune Cookie' or some such, and went on to describe the crap construction/build of one their boats in their chinese factory. (at least that was my take) They claimed they were 'makin' it right with the buyer' or some bs. When a purchaser shells out a few MILLION dollars for anything it had better be *right* out of the box or heads will/should fly at the products HQ IMO! I tried to photo the placard with the cell phone but you know how those come out.
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Old 13-10-2015, 16:00   #107
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Re: Dive platform on Royal Cape catamaran?

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The show has a Royal Cape 53 catamaran with a dive platform that they claim raises and lowers to a level 3 foot below waterlevel. Also they claim to be able to carry dingy secured to it. Has anyone seen this in action?
Not On this brand but on 60 foot Catana. Cool feature if the boat is big enough. Quite common on large motor boats. Lower partially for swim platform, dock,patio with water lapping your toes, the usual stuff
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Old 13-10-2015, 16:38   #108
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Re: Who's Going To Annapolis 2015?

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You must have been at a different show Tellie! The weather was great Sunday and Monday while I was there. For the life of me I could not locate you, try as I might for the 2 days I walked the place. I did'nt locate Chris Rudlett from LTD Sailing either but lots of folks I inquired about looking for him said he's a great chap! Was even up on the PainKiller Deck a couple of times (enjoying the view) and could'nt scratch up a CF member up there at those times either. Got pretty busy looking at boats and all the vendor booths. Did come across a really nice guy whose a vendor and CF member from 'Annapolis Cruisair'. I chatted him up about h2o makers and he steered me in the right direction for my upcoming needs. Took his card to give him kudos, but his name isn't on the card He owns a 50ft mono though, so he might chime in.

Really enjoyed the show, but was disappointed that some vendors were packing it in at 3pm on Monday afternoon, a few hours before close, so there were'nt any bargains forthcoming from those departing vendors. Should be fun next year!
Yeah I was trying to be funny about the hurricane. A week before the show we were about to seriously cancel. Yet this was the best show weather wise I can remember in years. Absolutely gorgeous weather. I was there at the Annapolis CrusierAir booth and right across at the SuperWind350 booth as well. I might have zigged when you zagged. I would have loved to talk. We had a few working watermakers at the booth. I was surprised how many SuperWind350 wind generators we sold this year by people replacing their old generators after such a short time. I met up with Rich Boren at the Cruise RO booth at the show and had a great chat, Rich really is a great guy.
Vendors are not supposed to close down early and there are specific rules for that by the show management, but many of the vendors still do. I could never understand that as more than one show I have stayed and talked to customers well after the show closing time for as long as they wanted and still made a sale. But to be honest getting a bargain because it is close to closing time is a bit of a myth for many vendors. But Fort Lauderdale is coming up in a few weeks and Miami in a few months, we'll be there hoping to see more CFers. But we'll be back next year as well to Annapolis.

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Old 13-10-2015, 23:54   #109
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Re: Who's Going To Annapolis 2015?

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Did anyone go on the new Voyage. They totally redesigned the boat basically, modified the old mold. Made many improvements, the most important was raising the bridge deck clearance from 15 inches to 30 inches.
Yes, we looked at it. Unfortunately other than it being a very nice yacht.....and BIG, can offer no specifics. We were focusing on slightly smaller cats.
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Old 14-10-2015, 06:06   #110
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Re: Who's Going To Annapolis 2015?

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Clamdigger,

This was the Helia 44 at the show, taken of the port hull. I don't think it shows up well because you see it when looking along the hull, but the gel coat is dimpled along this section of hull as the tie layer underneath (too thick? too "hot" a mix?) reacted in the mold. Just a QA thing. Probably just cosmetic but still, it's a display boat.

Gel coat halos are when trying to blend exterior applied gel coat if not done well it leaves round marks, looking like halos. And the joints in kit boats can show over time, if not sooner as in this boat at the show.

I'm just picky when shelling out more than half a million, and it makes me wonder what other QA issues I should be aware of, perhaps more importantly at the structural level that are not so obvious, but are more important.

Some manufacturers are getting very good at reducing labour costs with production techniques that are not, shall we say, producing boats as robust as they could be.

You will find out which brands these are by speaking to those who repair multi hulls after they have received a pounding courtesy of a storm or two, or perhaps insurance assessors.



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Old 15-10-2015, 05:42   #111
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Re: Who's Going To Annapolis 2015?

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Attachment 110950

Clamdigger,

This was the Helia 44 at the show, taken of the port hull. I don't think it shows up well because you see it when looking along the hull, but the gel coat is dimpled along this section of hull as the tie layer underneath (too thick? too "hot" a mix?) reacted in the mold. Just a QA thing. Probably just cosmetic but still, it's a display boat.

Gel coat halos are when trying to blend exterior applied gel coat if not done well it leaves round marks, looking like halos. And the joints in kit boats can show over time, if not sooner as in this boat at the show.

I'm just picky when shelling out more than half a million, and it makes me wonder what other QA issues I should be aware of, perhaps more importantly at the structural level that are not so obvious, but are more important.

Some manufacturers are getting very good at reducing labour costs with production techniques that are not, shall we say, producing boats as robust as they could be.

You will find out which brands these are by speaking to those who repair multi hulls after they have received a pounding courtesy of a storm or two, or perhaps insurance assessors.



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Morning Big,

I must ask you if you looked at the Voyage boat. They have been building boats now for 20 years ish, our 1997 is a solid boat. They have many of the same people in the factory and continue to build rock solid boats. With the bridge deck clearance improvement ( from 15" to 30"), turning of the beds inside(all foot entries) and other improvements. I believe the 480 will prove to be a really nice boat.

I had the pleasure of a demo sail on Tuesday, with only 7 kts of wind, I measured 5.7 boat speed with a slack tide in the bay at the time we were out. Also just noticed the removal of the traveler car system and main sheet, to a rope only with blocks and sheaves to position the boom and sail tension. It seemed to work well and much better in a jibe, plus everything is done near the helm.


That boat is set up with four cabins, I bet an owners version would be great.
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Old 15-10-2015, 07:08   #112
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Re: Who's Going To Annapolis 2015?

SeaKing,

No, I missed it! With the improved bridge deck clearance, I would have liked to have seen it. Damn😩


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Old 15-10-2015, 07:27   #113
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Re: Who's Going To Annapolis 2015?

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SeaKing,

No, I missed it! With the improved bridge deck clearance, I would have liked to have seen it. Damn��


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Check the website for interior pics. I haven't heard the outcome, but the boat has a great chance for cruising boat of the year. The sail trial was late yesterday.

It really jibed easily compared to our old rig, I will be looking at re rigging possibly.
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