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Old 05-05-2008, 19:10   #121
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Whilst I do understand folk wishing to defend their choice of boat (Multi or Mono) to me it seems that some of the Multi contingent are wayyyyyyyyyyy too defensive, which to the uneducated (Moi!) smacks of either insecurity or good old fashioned nit picking for the sake of point scoring (hey, we all know how the "games" are played on forums ).
But what would you suggest we do when someone makes a statement like "multihulls are over represented in rescues" with no evidence to back it up?

Should we just let it go,and hope that nobody takes it seriously?

Do you really think that if I made a similar statement about monohulls in the monohull forum, nobody would challenge me?

And then if we do challenge we are accused of being insecure!

Isn't it just possible that we are sick of opinion, bullshit, and just plain lies being put forward as facts?
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Old 05-05-2008, 19:22   #122
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If nothing else this thread has shown that catamarans are purrfect without fault, at least in the eyes of some that own them . And if one mentions matters from the realms of ones own experience that might infer they are not purrfect one is dismissed as argumentative .
There is no call for a disingenuous remark, or for missing the point entirely. All boats are compromises, none are perfect.

You've been a member of this forum long enough to understand that certain mono guys become forum trolls and purposely trash multihulls. This thread is only the latest version in a long series of 'debates' over the years. I put quotes arround the word debate as in my opinion, it would seem an inappropriate description of what occurs in these threads. A debate is a disagreement over facts of an issue. When people take aim at catamarans, there are never any facts. Inuendo..third hand rumors... or old wives tales are substituted as facts. Someone even posted a magazine article as proof of whatever his point was, where the author admitted he disliked cruising catamarans because he couldn't sail a 16 ft beach cat very well.

As to your question "Are multihullers argumentative"? I don't believe so. Are we defensive? You bet we are and with very good reason.
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Old 05-05-2008, 19:45   #123
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

Whilst I do understand folk wishing to defend their choice of boat (Multi or Mono) to me it seems that some of the Multi contingent are wayyyyyyyyyyy too defensive,
I don't have a problem with people posing a well intentioned question. What bugs me is you get some people responding that have little or no experience with cruising multihulls but they sure have an opinion to pass off as fact. They use it as an excuse to get in some dig or do a little bashing. The same old rumors get repeated, stories about a friend's uncle, or I raced Hobie Cats so I know everything kind of crap. It was probably like this back at the dawn of the automotive age with the horse and buggy crowd dissing the automobile. They are unsafe, they go to fast, yadda yadda yadda.
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Old 05-05-2008, 19:46   #124
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This No Latitude for Error and No Good Calling for Mum | DVD | tvnz.co.nz came up top of the list in a Google search.

Regards

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Not mine as you can see what was typed in.

I will let you buy the DVD.

When you quote it someone else will have to buy it to see if you quoted it correctly and in context.

The hard numbers are not there. I.E. percent of monos vs cats, who needed help, what type, sailing experience etc. Then we will have to decide what is going to be the "waterline equivilent"....that's a long one......whew.

One thing I have no statistics on but have formed an opinion on is that the people that own cats have more money. But the size of the cat and age and mfgr will muddle all that up............but still.

I also think that a higher percentage of cat owners have less experience. One reason is because they finally found a way to get the wife on board for longer periods. They just have not been able to sail that much before........possibly because of having to make all that money for the wife to spend on the house and kids.
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Old 05-05-2008, 19:51   #125
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Should we just let it go,and hope that nobody takes it seriously?
I am not really a "turn the other cheek" kinda guy either........

But in general on the Internet Forum's I find being very constructive and overly nice works well if things are turning contentious........"Kill 'em with kindness and understanding"......no matter how much it pains .......if for no other reason than it annoys the cr#p outta folk who do enjoy winding folk up......but also it helps to deflate folk who could simply get sucked into a "debate" (I am not without sin on that one - but sometimes it just seems rude not to )........if "spreading the message" is the aim - avoiding threads full of self inflicted sh#te would be a good start.....only the committed few wade through 'em.

As a rough guide if yer having a "discussion" and find you are making multiple quotes of extracts from past posts in an attempt to progress your point.......it is time to check yer forehead for self inflicted dents


Be nice. It annoys people


Off to bed soon (Nearly 3am here! - too much internet and not enuf work. again).......anyway, this will be me final post on this thread - as I can't see me adding anything worthwhile.
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Old 05-05-2008, 20:26   #126
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Not mine as you can see what was typed in.
Do you mean that you typed in all of ""No Latitude for Error" being the Jules Verne circumnavigation by Enza. Not a cruising cat though, but reasonably conservative, and a very, very competent crew Peter Blake and Knox Johnson for starters""

Google "No Latitude for Error" you will get to the DVD (among other things).
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Old 05-05-2008, 21:40   #127
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no quotes or parentheses though.

but I don't really care that much.
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Old 05-05-2008, 23:26   #128
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no quotes or parentheses though.

but I don't really care that much.
I expect that you did care or else you would not have asked me to clarify the search.

Of course it may just be that you are extraordinarily rude or a time wasting dreamer - maybe both .
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Old 06-05-2008, 00:31   #129
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Of course it may just be that you are extraordinarily rude or a time wasting dreamer - maybe both .
Hows the stats for death at sea - mono v multi coming along? or were you just wasting my time?
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Old 06-05-2008, 13:40   #130
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Hows the stats for death at sea - mono v multi coming along? or were you just wasting my time?
I am unclear as to why you are expecting me to source such statistics for you, even if they exist, as I have not made any claim as to what type of vessel has the higher death rate . I have only commented on vessel losses and while I know you won't accept my experience on this point, in fact on the route I referred to there are very few deaths, just vessels lost. Furthermore I have no real interest in those myself. Expert that you claim to be, I am sure that should they exist you will be able to find them easily for yourself. It would seem you are just setting out to waste my time.

Anyway, I have satisfied my self that this multihull forum is populated by some posers who, even though in some cases, do not even own a cruising vessel of either type or have little larger boat experience (a review of their past posts show that) claim vast knowledge of the subject.

So I am out of here, for good or for worse , and will only look in here when I seek a little comedy. From my point of view, because I would have been genuinely interested in balanced views from very knowledgable and experienced multihull owners on a number of subjects.
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Old 06-05-2008, 14:02   #131
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Cool It!

Alright, guys, let's keep it polite and friendly here. David Old Jersey gave good advice in his post, above.
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Old 06-05-2008, 14:18   #132
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David Old Jersey gave good advice in his post, above.
Na! na! n na! na!
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Old 06-05-2008, 14:37   #133
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Na! na! n na! na!
Show off! .

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Old 06-05-2008, 14:44   #134
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This whole thread is a circular argument. Some boats make it and some don't, when the **** hits the fan I think luck has as much to do with it as anything else, regardless of the number of hulls.

We have a racing philosphy. You must have a minimum of two of the three to win: good crew work, boat speed, and luck, but you can't win without luck being one of the two.
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Old 06-05-2008, 14:48   #135
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Anyway, I have satisfied my self that this multihull forum is populated by some posers who, even though in some cases, do not even own a cruising vessel of either type or have little larger boat experience (a review of their past posts show that) claim vast knowledge of the subject.

So I am out of here, for good or for worse , and will only look in here when I seek a little comedy. From my point of view, because I would have been genuinely interested in balanced views from very knowledgable and experienced multihull owners on a number of subjects.
Thanks for your input. Of course if you could have produced one shred of evidence to back up your claims there might have been far less opposition to them.

I think we'd all like to see balanced views from experienced multihull owners.

Do you own a multihull? Ever even sailed on one?
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