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Old 02-05-2008, 17:24   #31
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Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
To put the last instance in perspective, this is a 540 ft cruise ship caught in 30ft waves and is obviously fighting for it's life. The boat described above Bermuda stated that they were in 45ft waves.
Cruise Ship Caught In Cyclone*Video.
I submit that if that ship were a catamaran it would not have been suffering as much.
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Old 02-05-2008, 17:25   #32
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My parents were on a cruise in the Med when they got caught in a storm. My mom describes clinging to the piano for support when the piano came loose and they both skidded across the floor and crashed into a bulkhead. She thought it was great fun!

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Old 02-05-2008, 18:03   #33
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My parents were on a cruise in the Med when they got caught in a storm. My mom describes clinging to the piano for support when the piano came loose and they both skidded across the floor and crashed into a bulkhead. She thought it was great fun!

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Obvioulsy the piano hit first.
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Old 02-05-2008, 18:39   #34
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This is a scan out of a press photo, taken some years ago now, of the 365 foot long rail ferry Aramoana going down the FACE of a big wave out in Cook Strait.


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These conditions are not at all unusual but in recent years due to passenger complaints the vessels either do not sail in the same conditions they used to or they give passengers the option of not going.

I am away on the boat at the moment but I have the full press photo somewhere at home and I can assure doubters that the photo shows the vessel going down the face of the wave. There is also a painting taken from the photo in the Museum of Wellington, City and Sea.

There are also a number of videos on YouTube of vessels leaving Wellington Heads (do a search on there for "Suilven Wellington" for example). Those conditions are very common though. A few years back a big wavepiercing monohull ferry bent its bows up in the air when it plowed into a wave that reared up in front of it out at the heads - couldn't pierce that one .

I have had very little experience with sailing cats (but a lot with big fast power cats) so cannot add my own experience, but around the area I live they are not well regarded in our unsheltered waters - I only rely on the comments of some very experienced sailors who have sailed them in the area for that. From memory there are only 2 in our marina - new ones periodically appear but they soon get relocated across into the shelter of the inner Marlborough Sounds so that they do not have to regularly make the Strait passage - I suspect a particular danger to them are the very sudden changes in wind speed we can get, from seemingly benign to 50-60 knots in a minute or so is not unusual and they bring us up all standing in a solid 40 foot cruising monohull if we are not to be laid flat until we get down to heavy weather jib only.

Multihulls are also over represented, in respect to their numbers, in the losses between NZ and the South Pacific Islands (from memory the last loss of any kind was a trimaran, around 40 foot from memory and the crew of two were lost, and the one previous was the crew were evacuated off an around 65 foot cat - both cruising vessels). But I think it has been many years now since a NZ registered sail boat of any kind has been lost on that route as they are all now required to comply with the IYRC Category 1 special rules for structure and fitout.

Note, I am not a cat knocker at all - I think they are the ideal solution for tropic and subtropic cruising where the conditions are benign in comparison.
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Old 02-05-2008, 19:50   #35
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The biggest waves I have ever seen was on the Ferry. We were the last sailing for three days. I don't think the boat was supposed to have been out there. We were not allowed out on any of the side decks, but the inside was so hot and clamy and smelt of vomit, that I snuck out on a side deck on the lee of the ship. The wind was no longer a howl, but a shreek and the spray was going right over the vessel. I can remember very plainly, looking up at the waves. There was a situation on board with a little boy going missing at the time. Fears were that he may have gone overboard. He was later found hiding under something, the poor wee chap was scared out of his wits. Good thing he was there, no one would have been found in that stuff and I doubt the ship could have even turned around in it. There have been some sailings where the Ferries have had to take a detour and come in the Northern entrance of Queen Charlotte sound due to the sea's being too big for entrance to Tory channel.
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Old 02-05-2008, 19:58   #36
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Although my Cook Straight mast gathering trip was our most scariest trip to date and I hope it remains that way, the most uncomfortable trip was on the Nelson side of D'Urville Island in only 6ft seas. But the tide and backwash from the Island made the sea so messy we could not get a comfortable sail no mater which way we pointed. I think a Cat would have handled that stuff a lot better.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:13   #37
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I have sailed the FastCat 435 prototype thru a gale force storm ( 65 Knots ) near Barbados with a storm jib and it did feel ok wave condition was fierce on the inner side of the caribbean 4 to 5 meter waves we where acutally still sailing 12 to 15 knots.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:07   #38
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I have sailed the FastCat 435 prototype thru a gale force storm ( 65 Knots ) near Barbados with a storm jib and it did feel ok wave condition was fierce on the inner side of the caribbean 4 to 5 meter waves we where acutally still sailing 12 to 15 knots.
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With the storm jib did you have the main all the way down?

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Old 03-05-2008, 08:31   #39
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Multihulls are also over represented, in respect to their numbers, in the losses between NZ and the South Pacific Islands (from memory the last loss of any kind was a trimaran, around 40 foot from memory and the crew of two were lost, and the one previous was the crew were evacuated off an around 65 foot cat - both cruising vessels).

I think you should be careful about making statements like this, unless of course, you have evidence to back it up. I seem to recall a recent rescue of a father and daughter (French iirc) who were rescued, then the father demanded to be returned to the boat. I tried to find the thread, but couldn't; however serendipitously found this one: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...onga-1917.html

There was another discussion of a yacht on its way from NZ to Oz, that had to turn back after getting the snot kicked out it. Think that was a husband and wife and one or two other crew. Again, I couldn't find the thread.

But that's five mono's to your two multi's - not knocking mono's - just adding perspective.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:18   #40
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But that's five mono's to your two multi's - not knocking mono's - just adding perspective.

I agree with Lodesman, there have been many more accounts of mono's getting pooped on the way to New Zealand and elswhere than there have been of multihulls. Regardless of the anecdotal reports, that does not make one safer than the other. In gales above 50-60knots and large waves, ANY boat runs a risk of getting in trouble. If a huge wave hits you just right it can roll a mono or do great damage to a multi.

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Old 03-05-2008, 09:23   #41
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With the storm jib did you have the main all the way down?

Keegan
Yes the main was down all the way and the wind came in from 120 degrees app.
Had the wind become stronger I would have used my Jordan series drogue of the back

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Old 03-05-2008, 09:35   #42
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Yes the main was down all the way and the wind came in from 120 degrees app.
Had the wind become stronger I would have used my Jordan series drogue of the back

Greetings

Gideon
Yeah, I carry a Jordon Series. I bought a big parachute anchor from Fiorentino also but the weight of both of those device together is almost 200lbs which is a real bummer to add to the boat. I have yet to put the parachute anchor on the boat due to weight. The 500' of rode alone is alot of weight.

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Old 03-05-2008, 11:42   #43
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It seems as though any time someone asks a question about how a multi does in heavy weather it results in pages and pages of defensive posts from multi owners that don't, for the most part, have any experience with heavy weather. I'm not knocking cats at all, it's just an observation that it doesn't seem that as a group multi's have experience in heavy weather in the same ratio as monos. If the same question was asked about first hand heavy weather experience in mono hulls there would be no end to the posts. Is it because for the most part multis stay in more protected waters, or don't make as many offshore trips? There are certainly a lot of them out there, it just seems strange that it's hard to find many that have been through a major storm with 25'+ combined seas and high winds. We get them off the coast of Washington and BC all the time, and everyone tries to avoid them, but many get caught and have to ride it out. We don't have many multi's here but I am starting to see more each year. Maybe it is just a numbers thing, there aren't enough multi's in areas (high latitude) that get rough weather regularly to have experienced it to the extent that monos have?

John

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Old 03-05-2008, 12:28   #44
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It seems as though any time someone asks a question about how a multi does in heavy weather it results in pages and pages of defensive posts from multi owners that don't, for the most part, have any experience with heavy weather. I'm not knocking cats at all, it's just an observation that it doesn't seem that as a group multi's have experience in heavy weather in the same ratio as monos. If the same question was asked about first hand heavy weather experience in mono hulls there would be no end to the posts. Is it because for the most part multis stay in more protected waters, or don't make as many offshore trips? There are certainly a lot of them out there, it just seems strange that it's hard to find many that have been through a major storm with 25'+ combined seas and high winds. We get them off the coast of Washington and BC all the time, and everyone tries to avoid them, but many get caught and have to ride it out. We don't have many multi's here but I am starting to see more each year. Maybe it is just a numbers thing, there aren't enough multi's in areas (high latitude) that get rough weather regularly to have experienced it to the extent that monos have?

John

John
To a point I agree with you John about the information offered even though I am a ctamaran fan, is it maybe either:

a) there are a greater number of monohull sailors on this forum than cat sailors therefore the possible % of their experiences are very much less than those of monohull sailors

b) a lot of multihull sailors are so busy offshore playing in the storms they don't have the time to look at forums such as these

c) I wonder (seriously) what the actual % cruising monohulls there are in the world to cruising multihulls anybody actually know??, this would therefore have a great effect on experiences that could be told, as I am sure that this forum probably does not even attract 0.05% of the world cruising fraternity and therefore limited results follow.

But again I would love to hear some more first hand experiences, some have already been told which is great, but I think again to what I have quoted above, we are unlikely to hear many more.
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Old 03-05-2008, 14:00   #45
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Ireaney- I suspect that you are right about the smaller number of cats, so therefore the fewer reports. I also think that the majority of cats are concentrated in areas where the weather is pretty nice for the most part, although certainly there are a lot circumnavigating and covering some notoriously nasty parts of the globe. There seem to be a lot more multi owners here on this forum than on others, so I thought there would be more actual experience to report. Maybe it will just take another 10 years or so for there to be enough experiences recorded to form a consensus of opinion about how they handle really rough conditions with your average cruiser/owner at the helm.

John
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