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Old 01-01-2008, 13:16   #1
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Who has experience with Kite sailing A Cat

Is there anybody around that has any experience with Kite sailing a catamaran . it sound ideal to me on long stretches dwonwind , creating lift and getting the wind from 100 ft high. please let me know
Greetings and a good year
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Old 01-01-2008, 14:34   #2
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Fast,
Not a cat but a friend of mine had a freedom 40 (no forestay) out of Newport Beach California that had a custom kite fitted up some 20 years ago for some extra 'pull' and a lot of fun fooling around. Nothing as sophisticated as the nice rig in your photos. He used to rig up a bosun's chair type thing hanging under it and give the kids a helluva ride out there much like a lot of peeps do with a loose footed spinnaker.

There were two inherent problems: launching, and retrieving. The launch he eventually settled by launching it out of a turtle at the bow such that the top of the thing caught the wind and only drew the rest of it up and out as it filled, thus keeping it out of the water. His was fitted with a line to the masthead for that purpose, ( I see a similar line in your photos) but the stress on the mast during the transition was at times, substantial. I've *heard* of some people using different types of ballistic launchers. I'm going to try rigging one on my freestanding schooner using a "pilot chute" type mechanism to go up and then draw the 'kite' out of a turtle. (probably cause I'm an old paratrooper and the pilot thing worked pretty good for that Further, no matter what, a small pilot strong enough to lift and suspend the kite, isn't going to tear up the rig.

The second problem bob had was retrieving the kite when the wind blew up, without running over the thing and/or the lines. I'm liking the idea of my pilot chute more for this problem also, as , if you rig the pilot so it continues to fly above the kite, (look at pictures of parachutists in action) you can use your inversion line to invert the kite so you can pull it back in easily while the pilot chute keeps it up out of the water. Otherwise, as you invert, the thing can simply fall into the ocean if you're not careful, at which time you really have your hands full.

He used to try to winch his kite down directly while still full, but this is a testy proposition as you have to bring in all lines at the same rate, thus you need someone manning each line, and even at the end, you still run the risk of the thing collapsing and running over it before you get it all inboard.

Good luck. I can only imagine the speed you're going to get out of one of your cats with these things. They can pull HARD!!! which can get exciting if your helmsman 'zigs' when he should've 'zag' d

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Old 01-01-2008, 15:20   #3
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The only thoughts I have is that whenever we have been silly and set a spinnaker without a pole for a dead downwind run we have run alright... right into problems!

When you see photos of racing yachts with spinnaker problems where its not setting, or its wrapping, or the boat is broaching - i.e. totally out of control - just look at one thing: The spinnaker pole. Guaranteed its not set right or correctly restrained. Only secondly look at the halyard height too low, and the sheets/guys being too loose.
A kite like you are showing is just an out of control, unpoled spinnaker with the sheets and braces way, way out from their blocks.

The only reason why a spinnaker is ever dropped is because it becomes untennable: Too shy as the wind has come around, or the wind has come up. Both occasions its harder to douse.

My suggestion is to get a normal spinnaker and spinnaker pole. Its more controllable and great fun to use and the difference in the wind from 100 feet to the top of your mast would be negligible.

When we were watching the start of the Sydney Hobart Yacht race the day after Christmas 4 or 5 boats broke the start and had to turn round and restart. They were only 300 or 400 meters from the start line but they all had time to pull up their spinnakers and drop them again and have an advantage, all in 400 meters!!!! It was an incredible display of sailing and shows clearly that a spinnaker is a quick sail to set and drop if you know what you are doing.
With a kite like you are showing if there was an obstruction popping up dead ahead - a nice coral reef etc - you would be well and truly stuffed! and I dont think you could cut the lines as sheets under pressure are like bolts of steel. Emergency stopping of a spinnaker is 2 seconds (then 10 minutes later unwrapping it )


Anyway, its just my thoughts not having had a kite

Others may have a better idea

Mark
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Old 01-01-2008, 16:01   #4
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A kite like you are showing is just an out of control, unpoled spinnaker with the sheets and braces way, way out from their blocks.
Makes good sense to me. A man overboard and you might get back in an hour.
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Old 01-01-2008, 16:14   #5
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My suggestion is to get a normal spinnaker and spinnaker pole.
Spinnaker pole? What's that?

Why would anyone with a cat want to mess with such a contraption?

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Old 01-01-2008, 16:59   #6
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Spinnaker pole? What's that?
Between a German, Ukranian, & Czech and opposite to Sweedish
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Old 01-01-2008, 17:05   #7
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Between a German, Ukranian, & Czech and opposite to Sweedish
rflmao

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Old 01-01-2008, 22:48   #8
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Spinnaker pole? What's that?

Why would anyone with a cat want to mess with such a contraption?

Dave
I think it is the novelty of doing such a thing. I would try it for the kicks.
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Old 01-01-2008, 22:54   #9
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The idea is to use it for delivery,s from Cape town to Miami Wind coming from 160 degrees 15 to 20 knots all day and night for at least 25 days. I have done this run and To get a sail 20 meters high sounds appealing to me because of the added lift and more wind up there, specially with cat with the wide bows to keep the kite in the right location !
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Old 01-01-2008, 22:57   #10
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Spinnakers and Gennakers together with code zero roller furlings where at one time novelty,s . there is no yacht without them . now we have a chance to get more umpf with added lift , sounds appealing to me !
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Old 01-01-2008, 23:23   #11
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For the doubters out there, go down to the surf and watch the guys with the old fashioned windsurfer wishbone sail type rigs vs. the new kite surfer rigs. The guys with the kites go FAAAAAAST!!!! and I mean REALLY fast hehehe. Saw a guy off St. Augustine about a month ago that was ripping up and down the beach at a speed that was beyond belief. At one point he was jumping from wave crest to wave crest...flying the complete distance between.

The one bob had on his Freedom could pull very hard in a good breeze. I would think a fair sized one on a fast cat would make for one helluva sleigh ride, just be sure you have a way to depower the sail instantly, like casting off the lower lines.


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Old 02-01-2008, 04:37   #12
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Gideon, I would contact these guys and review your requirements. KiteShip - Innovation in Tethered Flight

We have sold off some old sym kites for people doing downwind deliveries to save the good racing gear.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:41   #13
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For the doubters out there, go down to the surf and watch the guys with the old fashioned windsurfer wishbone sail type rigs vs. the new kite surfer rigs. The guys with the kites go FAAAAAAST!!!! and I mean REALLY fast hehehe.

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Yes the kites are fast, but........
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:46   #14
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I think it is the novelty of doing such a thing. I would try it for the kicks.
2Hulls was talking about spinnaker poles. Cats don't need them.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:37   #15
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Do also note that these board guys are sailing broadreaches. Don,t limit yourself to downwind sailing. The low level pull avoids heeling, the problems come with stability. You'll need a hoist and forget type sail that doesn't require continual tweeking but reaching at higher speeds should set your cat's tail(s) alight.
Leeway shouldn't be a problem if hull speed increases, and heaving to by swinging into wind just leaves a wet a bulky sail to stow. Perhaps a droque at the ready should you have to do it in an emergency. That way you can park the boat for ten minutes, get all lines on board and sails down to start the M.O.B. drill.
So sail needs to be controllable but stable sideways but self setting in elevation. Is that possible?
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