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Old 17-12-2009, 06:18   #31
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Bill, I confess to knowing almost nothing about Tri's. However, there are many things we've learned about living aboard and cruising that, it seems to me, are as applicable to multi's as mono's. Here are a few you might consider adding to your selection criteria:
-- for your defined cruising area, a design that allows the aft cabin trunk & cockpit to provide full sun protection will make each day more enjoyable for you. (Some Tri's, especially the more modern designs, seem ill suited for this without an aesthetic penalty).
-- one lives aboard a boat in two basic areas: the cabin(s) down below and the cockpit topside. This reality in turn means a) you will use the companionway several thousands times each year...so just how friendly and safe is it to use, both when sailing and also on the hook? And b) cockpits are (or at least should be) like living rooms, where a premium should be placed on ergonomics (e.g. contoured coamings that fit & support the human body and a bit of 'spreading out' space). Tiny cockpit wells & the absence of supportive coamings suggest a boat intended for daysailing to me.
-- weight is always a liability (moreso in a multi, no?) and living aboard means bringing weight aboard, much of which (clothing, food, books, toys, etc.) is independent of boat size. I think that's one reason why long-term living invokes less of a penalty on bigger boats...so it isn't just your preference to have 'room' for visitors that supports choosing a bigger Tri over a smaller one. Of course, this assumes you can afford the add'l cost, which increases far faster than size as you move up.

Of the links you've provided, the Mashford strikes me as offering the most inviting living space down below and the foam construction seems far more practical to me than ply construction. (If you'd like to learn a bit more about "living" with a well-built ply Tri, you might visit Bruce Balan's very nice website at MIGRATIONS Each chapter, as you follow along with him from California into the South Pacific, is well illustrated with rot removal and the consequences of wear & tear. OTOH Bruce has a wonderful attitude about the whole thing...).

BUT as good as the Mashford looks on the inside, some careful thought about the above points as they relate to the outside might prove worthwhile.

Best wishes on the Hunt...

Jack
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Old 17-12-2009, 13:22   #32
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Here are a number of different cockpit configurations I have on some various Trimarans. I agree, it is one of the most used areas on a cruising boat. In Mexico we live in the cockpit 90% of the time we are awake....The first shots are of a Chris White 54' Hammerhead. In the class of "ultimate trimaran cruising boat"...pretty nice any way you cut it...
Next 3 shots, and the last shot are same designer, similar length. Built is wood and constant camber. Is Juniper class Tri. The cockpit looks pretty tight to me. For a boat this size anyhow.
Next two shots are of a 46' CC in Australia. I looked a similar boat in Mexico. The cockpit is short from what I am used to. It was done like this to make room for a double bunk aft I believe.
Last two shots are my little 34' Searunner. 1st shot is with the wheel in place, and the second shot is in the "on the hook" mode, with the wheel removed and a small table in place. The cockpit is 6 6" long and wide enough to sleep on each side. You steer and have the controls for all the sails and the mast with the halyards and the centerboard controls all in one centralized spot.
The cockpit is the result of Jim Brown design that put the mast compression on the centerboard trunk. Allows for big walk thru openings down below also. All the heavy stores go in below the cockpit. Engine, tanks for fuel and water, batteries, tools, it all goes in the center of the boat. Only lightweight things go out in the ends. This make for a very good motion in a seaway. On center sailing needs to be experienced to appreciate.
So for me, center cockpit gets my vote. Great visibility, handy to the front and back of the boat, dry, stable. With kids or dogs you are 10' from the water at the closest point.
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Old 18-12-2009, 03:58   #33
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Tri's Tri's and more Tri's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro Cruiser View Post
Bill, I confess to knowing almost nothing about Tri's. However, there are many things we've learned about living aboard and cruising that, it seems to me, are as applicable to multi's as mono's. Here are a few you might consider adding to your selection criteria:
-- for your defined cruising area, a design that allows the aft cabin trunk & cockpit to provide full sun protection will make each day more enjoyable for you. (Some Tri's, especially the more modern designs, seem ill suited for this without an aesthetic penalty).
-- one lives aboard a boat in two basic areas: the cabin(s) down below and the cockpit topside. This reality in turn means a) you will use the companionway several thousands times each year...so just how friendly and safe is it to use, both when sailing and also on the hook? And b) cockpits are (or at least should be) like living rooms, where a premium should be placed on ergonomics (e.g. contoured coamings that fit & support the human body and a bit of 'spreading out' space). Tiny cockpit wells & the absence of supportive coamings suggest a boat intended for daysailing to me.
-- weight is always a liability (moreso in a multi, no?) and living aboard means bringing weight aboard, much of which (clothing, food, books, toys, etc.) is independent of boat size. I think that's one reason why long-term living invokes less of a penalty on bigger boats...so it isn't just your preference to have 'room' for visitors that supports choosing a bigger Tri over a smaller one. Of course, this assumes you can afford the add'l cost, which increases far faster than size as you move up.
Of the links you've provided, the Mashford strikes me as offering the most inviting living space down below and the foam construction seems far more practical to me than ply construction. (If you'd like to learn a bit more about "living" with a well-built ply Tri, you might visit Bruce Balan's very nice website at MIGRATIONS Each chapter, as you follow along with him from California into the South Pacific, is well illustrated with rot removal and the consequences of wear & tear. OTOH Bruce has a wonderful attitude about the whole thing...).
BUT as good as the Mashford looks on the inside, some careful thought about the above points as they relate to the outside might prove worthwhile.
Best wishes on the Hunt...
Jack
G'day Jack,
Thanks for your views mate, they are much apprecated
Like you, I know almost nothing about Tri's, I have only been aboard an aloy built visiting Tri while living/working in Greece, while in Greece I lived onboard a motor yacht/gin palace with loads of space everywhere, no comparson to a sail boat, mono or tri but maybe comparable to a large, 60'+ cat. I did help put a 65' cat in the water while in Durban and she had loads of space. I got o
I did live onboard a 28' mono when I lived in Durban, South Africa...I found "Cracker Jack" to be pretty cramped living.
The only other Tri's I've seen, were 28' to 32' Tri's offered for sale around Victoria, all were older Pivers but after having a look at them, I did not think any were suitable for "living" on-board full time. So, right or wrong, I'm now looking at Tri's from 36' to 40'.
I blieve a nice 34'+ cat would be nice but the truth is, I simply can't aford one So I think a nice Tri will do the trick for me

I'm in no hurry, still have things to take care of and lots more to enquire about.

Cheers mate,

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
Here are a number of different cockpit configurations I have on some various Trimarans. I agree, it is one of the most used areas on a cruising boat. In Mexico we live in the cockpit 90% of the time we are awake....The first shots are of a Chris White 54' Hammerhead. In the class of "ultimate trimaran cruising boat"...pretty nice any way you cut it...
Next 3 shots, and the last shot are same designer, similar length. Built is wood and constant camber. Is Juniper class Tri. The cockpit looks pretty tight to me. For a boat this size anyhow.
Next two shots are of a 46' CC in Australia. I looked a similar boat in Mexico. The cockpit is short from what I am used to. It was done like this to make room for a double bunk aft I believe.
Last two shots are my little 34' Searunner. 1st shot is with the wheel in place, and the second shot is in the "on the hook" mode, with the wheel removed and a small table in place. The cockpit is 6 6" long and wide enough to sleep on each side. You steer and have the controls for all the sails and the mast with the halyards and the centerboard controls all in one centralized spot.
The cockpit is the result of Jim Brown design that put the mast compression on the centerboard trunk. Allows for big walk thru openings down below also. All the heavy stores go in below the cockpit. Engine, tanks for fuel and water, batteries, tools, it all goes in the center of the boat. Only lightweight things go out in the ends. This make for a very good motion in a seaway. On center sailing needs to be experienced to appreciate.
So for me, center cockpit gets my vote. Great visibility, handy to the front and back of the boat, dry, stable. With kids or dogs you are 10' from the water at the closest point.
G'day Jmolan,

Looks like you have a nice Tri there, I have never seen a 34' Searunner and did not know they were so comfortable.
Like I said above, I will not be rushing into anything, I can't afford to buy in haste then repent at leisure So I'll take my time, have a sticky on my own if I can...Before spending money on a surveyor but... I wan't to do all in my power to get it right...The first time. I don't like chaping and changing so I've got to be happy with whatever I end-up with.

I would like to be as self-sufficent as possible, so I would like solar power, I would also like an R/O unit, a desalator for making my own fresh water, a shower, down below or on deck and what do you think of a "self draining cockpit"?
That's why I'm looking at 36 to 40' Tri's, if she did not have the watermaker or/and solar already onboard, then there should be enough free space for me to install same.

Anyway, I'll keep searching for something as close as possible to what I have in mind.

Cheers Jmolan,

Bill AU

PS. What do you think of this old girl? A 50 footer
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Old 18-12-2009, 04:30   #34
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Bill, a pensioner with a 'beer & pie' budget doesn't want to own a 50 footer.

And tho' I forgot to mentioned it above, your decision to put a dedicated shower on the 'short list' of your selection criteria is IMO spot-on. Aside from a generally comfortable (for living on) and functional (for sailing) boat, a dedicated shower - not stuffed full of things not stowed elsewhere - makes marinas redundant and life aboard civilized. Dennis on MAYA (38' mono cutter) recently turned his hanging locker into a shower stall, with a nice comfy seat, light & ventilation from an opening port, for just this reason. It's easier to provide for a shower stall than it is to keep it empty...but it's a wonderful feature for life aboard.

Jack
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Old 19-12-2009, 02:03   #35
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Stedy On Jack :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro Cruiser View Post
Bill, a pensioner with a 'beer & pie' budget doesn't want to own a 50 footer.

Jack
Steady on there Jack mate, I'm sure I'm "not" a pensioner with “just” a "beer & pie" budget!...I'm more of a pensioner with a "Whisky/Vodka/Cognac", pie, “chips and sauce” budget I'm not real fond of beer but I know what you mean .

If I do as I plan, I can allow up to $100,000 for a Tri' or, whatever I finally settle on. That would leave me with just under $200,000 cash, perhaps a little more, plus two small pensions, together worth around $1,250AU per month.
As I have everything I want or need at present, plus quite a bit of gear I don't need, cars and such I can live quit comfortably on my pensions.
I have a triple A credit rating but don't believe much in credit. I have paid-off in full, four credit cards and closed those accounts, I now have only one credit card for emergencies but I can get access to an unsecured line of credit for $35,000 any time I want...I don't want or need that line of credit but it's nice to know it's there if I need it quickly.
I think knowing just how much cash I have to work with for buying a boat works to my advantage, I don't waste time looking over vessels "not" within my price range.

I can do all my own electrical work, AC or DC. I can also do plumbing or mechanical work on engines, (I prefer diesels) gen' sets and other mec' gear. Although I'm no carpenter, my woodwork has been acceptable to others over the years since I've been on the beach but...I know "nothing" about working with glass, I did build a 40' Wharram Cat, a captain Cook, quite a few years back but I had others do the fibreglass work, anyway, I feel I could do most of my own maintenance on my own vessel.

Having spent a fair part of my life at sea, on merchant ships and private yachts, I "believe" I know what I want on board the vessel I end-up with for a comfortable life afloat and, if it's not there...I would like the free space to install it.
Having said that, I do not want to spend months on end, working on a vessel to make her seaworthy instead of being out on the water enjoying myself, so, I'll take my time in finding the right vessel...Before jumping in with both feet

Still Jack mate, it's great to get the views of others, specially those who live aboard their boats and don't just have the boat for a status symbol.

Cheers Jack,

Bill

PS. I forgot to ask Jack, why do you say: Bill, a pensioner with a 'beer & pie' budget doesn't want to own a 50 footer.
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Old 19-12-2009, 03:49   #36
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"I forgot to ask Jack, why do you say: Bill, a pensioner with a 'beer & pie' budget doesn't want to own a 50 footer."

Well, just the obvious reasons which you already appreciate, I'm sure. First, because pensioners - well, at least most of us - change places on an economic ladder, from a place where both income and savings can incrementally climb over time (the whole premise behind buying things on credit now and paying for them later, when they are allegedly affordable) to a place where the income is almost always lower & fixed while one's savings are incrementally consumed to supplement the lower income.

And second, because the cost of owning a boat increases at a much faster rate than a length or displacement increase, when comparing the ownership cost of a smaller vs. a larger one. So e.g. you can't use the logic that a 50 footer is only 25% larger than a 40 so the cost to maintain isn't that much greater.

And third, because you've told us you don't need that much space. Especially if planning to single hand and also being the chief cook & bottle washer vs. sharing in the workload of maintaining (and with time, also doing the inevitable repairing and upgrading that comes with ownership), where's the benefit of buying more boat than you want or need?

Jack
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Old 19-12-2009, 21:30   #37
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Thanks Jack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro Cruiser View Post
"I forgot to ask Jack, why do you say: Bill, a pensioner with a 'beer & pie' budget doesn't want to own a 50 footer."

Well, just the obvious reasons which you already appreciate, I'm sure. First, because pensioners - well, at least most of us - change places on an economic ladder, from a place where both income and savings can incrementally climb over time (the whole premise behind buying things on credit now and paying for them later, when they are allegedly affordable) to a place where the income is almost always lower & fixed while one's savings are incrementally consumed to supplement the lower income.

And second, because the cost of owning a boat increases at a much faster rate than a length or displacement increase, when comparing the ownership cost of a smaller vs. a larger one. So e.g. you can't use the logic that a 50 footer is only 25% larger than a 40 so the cost to maintain isn't that much greater.

And third, because you've told us you don't need that much space. Especially if planning to single hand and also being the chief cook & bottle washer vs. sharing in the workload of maintaining (and with time, also doing the inevitable repairing and upgrading that comes with ownership), where's the benefit of buying more boat than you want or need?

Jack
G'day Jack,

Thanks for the clarifications mate Maintaining a Tri...Any Tri, is something that I am concerned about, sure I can look after most of the maintenance on and below deck but...The thought of haul-out cost, cleaning, anti-fouling and painting "three" hulls instead of one is a bit of a worry. I can not even consider a Cat, because I want to have some cash left in the kitty...after buying a vessel. So Cats are out.

I have spent quite a bit of time around our local yacht clubs making mooring enquiries, when I enquire about mooring a 36 to 40' Tri on a mooring, the answer is always...You have no chance! It's way to big to moor on our moorings!

I did point-out the fact they already had one 36', or bigger, Tri on the hook. They said, that's a visiting yacht and will be gone next week.
They also asked what I planed to do, if I could moor at their moorings,
when it was time to haul-out to clean the hulls? They did not have the space to handle a Tri! Any Tri over 32' in length.

I do like the look of most Tri's and their deck space, there ability to sail in shallow waters and their speed but...I don't like the thought of searching for a place to haul-out, then the cleaning, anti-fouling and painting of three hulls instead of one...From what I have read on the haul-out of Tri's, most yards charge like wounded bulls for the use of their facilities once they found out you had a Tri.

Things could be different up North but I don't know as I haven't checked yet. Anyway Jack, they are points I need to consider before making my decision.

Thanks again for your views Jack, good winds and calm waters to you.

Bill AU
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Old 20-12-2009, 15:01   #38
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BillAu,
Just a few shot to encourage you there Bill. Doing a bottom job on a well designed (skinny hulled) Trimaran is no more work than Monohull. I never added upi the paint needed or Sq. mtrs. of the bottom. But the main hull on my boat is only a little over a meter deep, with a 2.2 meter center board (you can see the board in the last shot) You can see how little the ama's are in the water, if you keep it light!
I do know on the boot stripe you use more tape! Like 3x as much! But the amount of paint on the ama's is very small. So a good bottom job is not be dreded....
The deck however is another matter. I did measure my deck when I was putting together a job to redo the whole thing. It came in the same area as a 56' x 12' monohull....!!!!! There is definitely more paint on the deck and the six sides of all those hulls. But it sure is nice to get it done!
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Old 20-12-2009, 22:41   #39
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Thanks Jmolan, your answer leeds me to more questions :)

Quote:
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BillAu,
Just a few shot to encourage you there Bill. Doing a bottom job on a well designed (skinny hulled) Trimaran is no more work than Monohull. I never added upi the paint needed or Sq. mtrs. of the bottom. But the main hull on my boat is only a little over a meter deep, with a 2.2 meter center board (you can see the board in the last shot) You can see how little the ama's are in the water, if you keep it light!
I do know on the boot stripe you use more tape! Like 3x as much! But the amount of paint on the ama's is very small. So a good bottom job is not be dreded....
The deck however is another matter. I did measure my deck when I was putting together a job to redo the whole thing. It came in the same area as a 56' x 12' monohull....!!!!! There is definitely more paint on the deck and the six sides of all those hulls. But it sure is nice to get it done!
G'day Jmolan,

Thanks for that helpful and interesting piece of information, I believed there was much more work involved in doing a bottom-job on a Tri than on a Mono, so it's good to know there is not a lot of difference

Your answer leads me to more questions Such as, what tools do you use on doing a bottom-job

As I said in an earlier post, I know "nothing" about fiberglass or working with it but I do have quite a lot of tools, power, portable and hand tools, such as a great compressor, it is the most powerful single phase compressor I could buy and it has seen verry little use, no problem in driving a couple of air driven tools at once of this sucker.
I also have drills, saws, paint spray kits, a small single phase arc welder, belt and disk sanders, angle grinders (large and small), and lots of other tools I used for doing engine, gearbox and other mec' work, electrical, plumbing and carpentry work. Anyway Jmolan, what tools do you consider to be "Must Have Tools To Have On-board" for doing a bottm job and/or most other jobs that come-up on a sailing Tri

Thaks for all the advice from yourself Jmolan...And others who replied to this post, all your adice is most welcome

Bill AU

PS. I'm reading-up on Solar panels, DS batteries and installation at present.
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Old 21-12-2009, 12:09   #40
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Searunner on eBay USA

From the info' been posted on this subject, it looks like I may be thinking "to big"! There's a Searunner on eBay which may be a good fit for me It's a pitty it's in the States, as it's a good price...even if it does need some work, Searunner If you'r interested and the link is busted, do a search on ebay.com for a 1974 31' searunner trimaran

At his reserve price, I thought this may be worth a trip to the States so I asked the owner: Can you tell me which was used in her construction, epoxy resin or polyester resin?
He replied: I am not sure,as I did not build the boat. I am 3rd owner. thanks.

Anyway, if anyone is in or near Marathon / fla keys, it could be worth a look

Bill
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Old 21-12-2009, 14:17   #41
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From the info' been posted on this subject, it looks like I may be thinking "to big"! There's a Searunner on eBay which may be a good fit for me It's a pitty it's in the States, as it's a good price...even if it does need some work, Searunner If you'r interested and the link is busted, do a search on ebay.com for a 1974 31' searunner trimaran
Hi Bill,

IMO a 31' trimaran is too small as a liveaboard, unless you want to go the ascetic route!

Have you had a good look at this 40' tri?
1991 Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Lying in NZ, thus a nice delivery trip back to AU. I think with this interior set-up and a nice spacious cockpit she could be a contender for your aspirations.

Regards
Roger
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Old 21-12-2009, 14:30   #42
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Jim Brown the designer of the Searunner Series, took a homebuilt 31' from SF bay area down through the Canal and up the east coast of US years ago. Had a wife and two sons onboard.
I know of at least on 31' that has circumnavigated. They are not very big, but they are very capable of be sweet to handle and safe on a long voyage.
Bill as I see all the tools you have, you might like to read this piece. Mark Hassell recently passed away, but he was a character in the first degree!

How THAT Came About - Index
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Old 21-12-2009, 15:36   #43
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She's on my watch list Roger :)

G'day Roger,

Are you still in Cape Town mate, if so, what's the big attraction Lay-off the Castle beer and Mainstay chasers mate and you'll make a mile or two

I haven't forgot the 40' Tri in NZ, I have her on my watch list...Along with that nice Mashford Tri, White Bird, here in Australia.
With the Tri in NZ asking price of 120,000.00 NZD, that equates to around 96,000 AUD, then, like other vessels outside Australia, there "could" be taxes and import duty to pay on her when importing her...I don't know if buying a Tri in NZ attracts tax and import duties, I'm guessing it would but I guess that depends on our trading terms with NZ. I must check with Aussie customs and excise and find out.

I also have a couple of 37' Searunners here in Australia on my watch-list and a 38' Crowther Impala in NSW, the Searunners and the Mashford are located in Queensland and from their pictures, it looks to me like the same Searunner Tri pictures have been used for the sales page for the two 37' Searunners! Bleeding yacht brokers! I'm 99.99% sure they have the same 37' Searunner listed at a price difference of over $20,000!
I guess I would need to take two weeks going around NSW and Queensland looking at the several Tri's I like the look of.

Oh well, we'll see how I go Roger. Now I'm off down the vet with my little dog, she done her knee and gets the bandages removed today. If it's not one thing it's another.

Cheers mate.

Bill
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Old 21-12-2009, 16:58   #44
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Bill,
Did you check Mike Allen's builds ? a lot cheaper for new than used.
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Old 22-12-2009, 10:51   #45
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Originally Posted by BillAU View Post
G'day Roger,

Are you still in Cape Town mate, if so, what's the big attraction Lay-off the Castle beer and Mainstay chasers mate and you'll make a mile or two

I haven't forgot the 40' Tri in NZ, I have her on my watch list...Along with that nice Mashford Tri, White Bird, here in Australia.
With the Tri in NZ asking price of 120,000.00 NZD, that equates to around 96,000 AUD, then, like other vessels outside Australia, there "could" be taxes and import duty to pay on her when importing her...I don't know if buying a Tri in NZ attracts tax and import duties, I'm guessing it would but I guess that depends on our trading terms with NZ. I must check with Aussie customs and excise and find out.
Hi Bill,

I'm sure that the price for the NZ tri, though already reduced by approx. 25%, will still be downward negotiable, she's been on the market for at least two years. I really think her interior set-up is great, maybe I should have popped over to NZ for a look at her! Would be interested to hear from you on what the customs regulations say on importing a boat from NZ into AU.

Otherwise, the beautiful city of Cape Town is my home, I live here. Planning to go long-term sailing though starting in May 2010. So it's not too many Castles that's holding me back, just my drawn-out divorce proceedings!

Regards
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