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Old 08-06-2015, 22:28   #1
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Which Stack Pack for a L450?

Im in need of a replacement stack pack for my Lagoon 450 which came with a quite inferior one from Incidence Sails. A year later, 6000Nm and an ocean crossing it has worn, broken, ripped, discoloured, been re-sewen, repaired, etc.

Ive received proposals from Doyle and MackPack and these have come recommended from some owners but I'd appreciate more feedback on the pros/cons of each of these and any others available?

Note that the 450 has a high boom, access is a challenge, but Im tall. Other improvements would be an alternative system to the weighted throw lines, space gaps for UV penetration and the jack lines that make hoisting the main sail problematic at times.
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Old 09-06-2015, 18:37   #2
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

A year old? Does lagoon have a view on warranty?
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Old 09-06-2015, 20:31   #3
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

Quantum makes an excellent quality one. Our first one lasted nine years and the new one is even better. It has a large cover that goes around in front of the mast that can stay on ar all times. So your main is completely covered.

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Old 09-06-2015, 20:36   #4
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

Here is a pic. It is made loose so it stays on even when the main is up.

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Old 09-06-2015, 20:56   #5
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
A year old? Does lagoon have a view on warranty?

And replace it with another of the same? No thanks! I did discuss this and elected not to claim but replace with an improved design. For the record, despite Lagoon's (or their agent) history for not honouring warranty claims, I have had a 100% success ratio with all claim; not that many actually.


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Old 09-06-2015, 21:03   #6
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailingcouple13 View Post
Quantum makes an excellent quality one. Our first one lasted nine years and the new one is even better. It has a large cover that goes around in front of the mast that can stay on ar all times. So your main is completely covered.

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Thank you Sailingcouple13. However your boat's configuration differs from a 450 as you have complete access to the stack pack to allow you to physically open and close the bag (zipper, i assume). The L450s boom is 1.7m (67in) off the deck and then you have the height of the stack pack making the zipper system unaccessible without a ladder. And then i have a large bimini that restricts the back half of the boom. A remote zipper system attached to lines from the boom perhaps?
I will contact Quantum however for a quote.




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Old 10-06-2015, 06:40   #7
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

There is a Lagoon Catamarans forum here at CF, you might want to pose the question there
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Old 10-06-2015, 07:15   #8
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

We had the same issues with our L450 Incidence bag. We had a new one made by Doyle in Barbados which is much more robust and hopefully will last a lot longer. The solution we came up with for the zipper is to tie a long tether with a loop on the zip. When closing I use a boat hook and drag it up. A bit of a pain getting around the lazy jacks but it's workable. For the final pull I climb up a few mast steps and use the hook again.


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Old 10-06-2015, 09:43   #9
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

I am happy with my Doyle, but my boom is not high.
I can see that coaching the zipper closed will be a problem when the sail needs to be stuffed in somewhat even though I have a high roach fully battened main.
This is my second pack. First lasted over 7 years in Florida.

I will not get another. Easier to deal with a sail cover.
Takes no longer with zippers on the bottom and keeps water out better.
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Old 10-06-2015, 14:00   #10
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

I used to race on a Hunter 340 with a Doyle stack pack whcih was 10 years old. the owner put a long piece of stainless steel flat stock on the end of the boom so the pack kept shape and taut. He had a zipper pull loop put on the port side of the pack that was a continuous loop and it allowed a person to unzip the stack pack and then grab the halyard and start hoisting. I know the Hunter is smaller but this is a post of experience and suggestion.
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Old 10-06-2015, 14:50   #11
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

On my much smaller monohull I've had good service out of a Doyle stack pack. They seem to have a similar design for all size yachts with a long sail batten in a pocket along each upper side with the lazy jacks supporting the battens. There is a zipped "nose bag" around the mast at the front. When hoisting, I also had a problem catching sail battens on the lazy jacks. The solution which works for me is to release the lazy jacks on one side and pull them forward and hook them under a gooseneck reefing horn. Then allow the sail to blow out slightly to that side while hoisting. My lazy jacks attach to the lower spreaders through turning saddles (or blocks) that are spaced some distance out along the spreader away from the mast. Then down to small cleats either side of the gooseneck (or lower for access) There is sufficient length of line to allow the jacks to be pulled forward. Having each spreader turning point away from the mast allows more room for hoisting. In many conditions and with sea room; motoring FAST into the wind allows an easy hoist without releasing the jacks as the sail streams back. I use a horizontally mounted converted small anchor windlass with a foot switch to quickly raise the sail from the cockpit. It did need a small modification to the oil seal for horizontal mounting as recommended by the manufacturer. The stack pack zipper has a long length of tape attached to the slide. I keep intending to tie a small fishing sinker to the end. After some ten years or so a sailmaker made me a replacement stack pack using the original as a pattern. It is even better and cheaper than the original. I hope those ideas are helpful for your L450; a design I admire.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:13   #12
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

The weighted throw lines don't really work. We're taking delivery of a new L450 in July and went ahead and replaced the stack pack before delivery in Les Sables d'Ollone. In Les Sables d'Ollone at the marina is a maker who knows the problem well and replaces many of the stack packs.

Contact Olivier TAROT at Voilerie TAROT. They have the L450 measurements etc. www.voilerie-tarot.fr or email:info@voilerie-tarot.fr
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:23   #13
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

[QUOTE=sailingforfun;1845764]The weighted throw lines don't really work. We're taking delivery of a new L450 in July and went ahead and replaced the stack pack before delivery in Les Sables d'Ollone. In Les Sables d'Ollone at the marina is a maker who knows the problem well and replaces many of the stack packs.


Could you share what their alternative is to the weighted throw lines? Did they just revert to a zipper?


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Old 11-06-2015, 07:34   #14
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mholtzberg View Post
the owner put a long piece of stainless steel flat stock on the end of the boom so the pack kept shape and taut. He had a zipper pull loop put on the port side of the pack that was a continuous loop and it allowed a person to unzip the stack pack and then grab the halyard and start hoisting. I know the Hunter is smaller but this is a post of experience and suggestion.
M. This sounds interesting and I kinda get how it works. Im guessing you haven't a photo (?) but would you be willing to put a sketch together and shoot it over? Much appreciated.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:31   #15
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Re: Which Stack Pack for a L450?

Steve,
I cannot say enough good things about Mack Sails!!

I've been personally doing business with them for many years (~ 20), and my brother before me....and my parents did business with Colin's and Travis' dad, back when he ran Mack-Shaw Sails, in Ft. Lauderdale in the 70's....

The best things about Mack Sails:
--- They are SAILMAKERS (and sailors), not just sail salesmen!
--- They have a LOT of real experience and will give you HONEST answers/advice....
--- They will listen to your desires (if you tell them, they're not mind readers!) and make recommendations, etc. based on both your desires and their experience...
--- They stand behind their work 100%...
--- All of their sails are made right there in their loft, by them, in Florida....and they ship sails all over the world!


I know you've already spoke to them and got a quote from 'em....just wanted to give you a personal recommendation...

[BTW, I don't own/sail a L450, nor a cat at all...I sail a mono....but I still think my recommendation holds!]


Fair winds...


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