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Old 12-12-2007, 03:07   #1
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Which old cat?

Hi all,

We're relatively new to sailing/cruising, but we're looking to live aboard full time within the next couple of years, starting in the Med and then working our way over to Asia.

We're relatively young (early 30s) and have a six-figure budget (euros) to finance the cruising life, plus I will be able to do some work on the way.

The thing is, our boat budget, if this is going to work, is around Ä50,000 (around $75,000) - including refitting and kitting it out for the above plans. We're both attracted to cats for a variety of reasons - space and remaining level being major ones - and for that price it seems we can pick up some older, solid cats. We're considering particularly the Catalacs, Heavenly Twins, possibly the smaller Prouts...

Do these make good live aboards (I know it might be a bit cramped, but me and the wife are used to being in close quarters)? Is it feasible to get an older one ready to go on that sort of budget (we're prepared to do most of the work ourselves)? Is there anything in particular we should watch out for when we go to view them?

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 12-12-2007, 05:32   #2
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Originally Posted by FerdinandMagellan View Post
The thing is, our boat budget, if this is going to work, is around €50,000 (around $75,000) - including refitting and kitting it out for the above plans. We're both attracted to cats for a variety of reasons - space and remaining level being major ones - and for that price it seems we can pick up some older, solid cats. We're considering particularly the Catalacs, Heavenly Twins, possibly the smaller Prouts...
The HT is going to be too small. I think you should be looking at a tired Catalac 10M, or a Prout 37' as a minimum size for a live aboard. I sail a Catalac 8M, and love the boat, but wouldn't care to live on her full time, unless I fully enclosed the huge cockpit area. The build quality of the Catalacs is very high and the boats age gracefully.

Full Catalac boat specs and original sales brochures are located on my Catalac website. The link is below this line. Look for the link to "Catalac Catamaran Information, reviews and brochures" .
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:00   #3
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I would beg to differ about the HT being too small My wife and I live aboard one comfortably. We also have friends that lived aboard a HT for 4 years. And I know of others who live aboard HTs. And of course we all know folks who need 40+ft catamarans to just get by. So really itís all about the individual expectations.

I have had to do a few things to make an HT more comfortable for the winter months. We have sewn up windows for the cockpit enclosure and they were worth every dollar and minute spent. Also we installed rigid foam insulation through out since our vintage boat is solid fiberglass with stringers, not the cored decks.

But the best thing is that a smaller boat has a smaller initial and operational price. For example, we stay in the same marina as 40+ft cats and pay less than half the slip fees. In my experience the costs go up logarithmically with size, from running rigging to insurance. But the best part is we own the boat, not the bank

As for a Catalac 10M, we owned one for several years. The Catalac is a very nice dock boat and a nice trawler. E-mail if you would like more Catalac 10m info. If your going Catalac route, here is a nice 12M Catalac Catamaran Sailboat 12M - 41' I've been on this boat a few times, and as recently as last month. It's very nice.
Good luck with your hunt.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:16   #4
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Ops, just caught your price limit, I was too focused on Rickm505ís anti-HT theme
I donít think your going to get a 10meter+ cat ready to go for that price. Even with a smaller boat it all depends on how much you can do yourself. I keep very close track of budget and our HT26 will be ready to go for less than half your 75K limit. The caveat being I do ALL my own work, from rigging, wiring, sewing, to hull repair and I donít consider Radar, Chart Plotters, Water Makers, essential. But my wife does consider refrigeration essential, therefore so do I! Donít bother looking at that 12m, Iím sure it will go for less than 150k, but it is a very nice boat so not that much less
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:27   #5
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FM,

The Mains did a circumnavigation in a 33' Prout (Alayne & Alec Main - The Trip), so it can be done in reasonable comfort by a couple. If you're planning on taking on crew or guests for anything more than a couple of days, you may want to go bigger.

Kevin
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Old 12-12-2007, 13:24   #6
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Just be aware that with the cats mentioned you do not get any kind of sparkling performance!

A Kelsall designed 10 m cat might also be worth considering, should fit your budget.

There's currently also a Beneteau Blue II on offer at €45,000, lying in Austria though.

Roger
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Old 12-12-2007, 14:12   #7
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I don't believe the 10M Kelsall has a salon. Looking at the one on yachtworld, it seems they have an unconventional design where the berths are where the salon should be. You'd recommend that as a live aboard?

I have a buddy who lives on his HT 26'. He lives alone and it's pretty cramped. If you guys can do it, all the power to ya. I do stand corrected. As to that 12M... this poster lives in Portugal. I would imagine finding a boat on that side of the pond would definately be prefered!!

As to performance, this poster is correct. Comfort, build quality, and survivorbility are what the older British cats are known for. Performance is a secondary consideration with these designs but they've survived both Fastnet , and the Queens Birthday storm when the perfomance boats did not.
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Old 12-12-2007, 14:47   #8
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I have a 1972 36' Prout Catamaran, I have just completed a 10,000+ mile two year trip, and are now back in Florida. I'm 74 years old and need to get out of sailing, (Health reasons) the boat is for sale quick cash sale $35,000 US as is. You would need to rewire the boat, it has a 25 hp Suzuki outboard engine (need some work) GPS, VHF Depth Sounder, Simrad W30 Autopilot. The boat is cutter rigged and has a good inventory of sails, as well as a 9'6" Achilles Inflatable Dinghy with a 4hp,
4 stroke Yamaha outboard. I estimate you could bring this boat back into top notch condition for a lot less than you budget. If you are interested, please contact me via e-mail.
pcoolchange@netzero.com

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Old 13-12-2007, 06:35   #9
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Rickm505, exactly what I meant by individual expectations. I personally canít image how a single guy could be cramped on an HT26. There is a silver lining however, since our society bigger is better attitude has invaded the catamaran market the price of smaller boats should keep dropping
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Old 13-12-2007, 07:14   #10
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Market price falling? Not with the dollar falling, and with current production boats (bigger and better) pushing $400K, Gemini excepted..... from what I've seen out there, our older British Cats are actually appreciating.
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Old 15-12-2007, 12:30   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505 View Post
I don't believe the 10M Kelsall has a salon. Looking at the one on yachtworld, it seems they have an unconventional design where the berths are where the salon should be. You'd recommend that as a live aboard?
Well, I don't really see a problem with this kind of set up for a young(ish) couple. It helps though to sail in warmer climates.

And what about the venerable Iroquois in the MkII or MkIIA version? Has better performance than the rest of these old British cats mentioned and has been cruised around the world.

Roger
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Old 15-12-2007, 17:58   #12
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No experiance of Cats, but I have always liked the look of the 28 foot Catfisher.....errr....just under 9 metres??

But I have funny feeling they sail as well as they look like they do - but IMO helluva nice deck saloon.



YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
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Old 15-11-2008, 20:35   #13
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Catalac 12M

I saw this post you left and thought I'd write you. The Catalac 12M you provided a link for has been sold and I wonder if you know how I can get in touch with the owner (old owner or new owner)? I understand that only twelve (12) 12M's were ever made, and 1 of them was lost, leaving 11 still out there. I'm seriously considering one and if I can't locate one now at least I can keep a list of the boats still in existance for a time when one may come up. If you know of one for sale or potentially for sale I'd like to know. Thanks.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones5962 View Post
I would beg to differ about the HT being too small My wife and I live aboard one comfortably. We also have friends that lived aboard a HT for 4 years. And I know of others who live aboard HTs. And of course we all know folks who need 40+ft catamarans to just get by. So really it’s all about the individual expectations.

I have had to do a few things to make an HT more comfortable for the winter months. We have sewn up windows for the cockpit enclosure and they were worth every dollar and minute spent. Also we installed rigid foam insulation through out since our vintage boat is solid fiberglass with stringers, not the cored decks.

But the best thing is that a smaller boat has a smaller initial and operational price. For example, we stay in the same marina as 40+ft cats and pay less than half the slip fees. In my experience the costs go up logarithmically with size, from running rigging to insurance. But the best part is we own the boat, not the bank

As for a Catalac 10M, we owned one for several years. The Catalac is a very nice dock boat and a nice trawler. E-mail if you would like more Catalac 10m info. If your going Catalac route, here is a nice 12M Catalac Catamaran Sailboat 12M - 41' I've been on this boat a few times, and as recently as last month. It's very nice.
Good luck with your hunt.
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Old 16-11-2008, 00:35   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
No experiance of Cats, but I have always liked the look of the 28 foot Catfisher.....errr....just under 9 metres??

But I have funny feeling they sail as well as they look like they do - but IMO helluva nice deck saloon.



YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale
i once heard sailing instructor say ,of these boats , "upwind sailing performance of a grand piano " !
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Old 17-11-2008, 14:45   #15
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I would not use your screen name in the Philippines. Magellan is looked at as an invader, and that is why Lapu Lapu killed him. You may offend some locals?
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