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Old 17-08-2011, 20:03   #1
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Which Is Which ?

Hi everybody, I'm sure you would have been down this path before but I'll ask again, the wife and I have decided to update our current 38ft steel ketch to a motorsailer for coastal and offshore cruising and a catamaran is ticking most of our boxes problem is after reseaching monohulls for the past 6 months I now have to start again, so this time I'm taking the easy way out and asking you guys. We are looking at spending up to around $400k for a cat thats about 40ft plus. We are based in Lake Maquarie NSW and firstly doing some day offshore travels north and south then in time up the east coast and on to Lord Howe, NZ etc when time permits.
The question is which are the better brands and which are the ones you stay away from, aluminium verses GPR, inboards verses outboards? Already I've found out that the voyager 500 is one to steer away from and after talking to a guy at the weekend cored hulls are another no no, so yes I need a lot of help and all advise given will be concidered carefully.

Pete
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Old 17-08-2011, 20:14   #2
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Re: Which is Which

When I was at Monty's boatyard on the Caboolture River in Queensland, there were several multihulls for sale, and several being modified or built in aluminum. If you get up to Queensland, it might be worth checking out Monty's to see if there is anything that looks good. There is one guy that builds and then sells cats periodically there as well. I don't know if he is still doing it.
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Old 20-08-2011, 12:25   #3
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Re: Which is Which

Pete, Most boats have cored hulls so it will be very difficult to find one without. Just have it checked out. Outremer is the only production boat that I can recall with solid fiberglass hulls. There are no production aluminum manufacturers. The only semi production builder in your price range is Prometa who builds the cats which were made famous (to the french) by a french sailor who has a made an impressive carreer of documenting his travels and selling it. Can't recall his name although the boat was called Bananas. Aluminum boats under 50' are generally heavier than composite boats due to the thickness of the metal panels. Stick with inboards over 40' feet. Seawind has a good rep and there should be lots of them in OZ. Good Luck BOB
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Old 22-08-2011, 09:53   #4
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Re: Which Is Which

The most common practice is to build hulls that are uncored below the waterline, and cored above. Decks particularly require coring of one kind or another to resist diving-board flexing under foot. Coring serves multiple purposes: it make the structure more rigid, insulates sound and heat (both ways!) and reduces weight where a solid glass layup strong enough to carry mast, chainplate or tank loads would be excessively heavy. Light weight coring will be replaced by plywood or other rigid materials where winches, blocks, stanchion bases and other high load hardware is attached, just as backing plates are welded into steel hulls and decks.

Thirty years ago some builders used balsa core in the hulls below the waterline. Some of those thirty year old boats are still sound, but there were enough that had problems to start this traditional "wisdom" (in quotes because there really are NO absolutes.) Balsa is the best choice for several applications, just as high tech foam panels are the best for slightly more applications, and a bit more money.

If you are really looking for the catamaran equivalent of a motor sailer, You should seek a few features that are anathema to performance-oriented sailors: Big fuel tanks, shorter rigs, and better footing all around the vessel. But since the engines will be bigger, louder, and heavier to meet your needs, they shouldn't share a stateroom with berths, and should have 360 degree access without having to lay on top of a 160 degree chunk of cast iron. Tough criteria!

Your budget is adequate, and you might even consider hiring a designer and going for a custom boat, but I would urge you to charter several different cats for a week each in a variety of sailing conditions. The money spent will be paid in full by narrowing your specifications and avoiding an expensive mistake.

In other words, go sail a cat!
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Old 22-08-2011, 17:19   #5
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Re: Which Is Which

Many thanks for the helpful advise so far, the idea of try before you buy appeals to me but unfortunately in my neck of the woods there is not too many catamaran charters so I'll be relying on advise from people like yourselves to see me through but I can assure that I'll be test sailing before we buy. After reading a lot of reviews and searching what is available I've come up with a list that hopefully with some help from you guys I can shorten down even further it is as follows;
Lagoon 410 2004 and 1999, 380 S2 2008, 380 2002, 47ft 1999.
F.P. Venezia 1998, Lavezzi 2008,2005, and possibily a 1997 Bahia
Perry 43ft 1999
Seawinds 1200 1999, 1998
lastly a 42ft 2004 leopard but it is in New Zealand so I'd have to do all the importing I might add that this is the only leopard I could find in my price range.
For sure different strokes for different folks what appeals to some may not appeal to others so I am very open to any suggestions made, I know in the end it will be my choice which suits me doing what I want to do but as I mentioned earlier I need a little help shorting the list.
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Old 23-08-2011, 14:43   #6
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Re: Which Is Which

I am not sure about taxes in your side of the world but I think you can buy a new L380 or FP Mahe. I would look for those. Or maybe a few year old L400 or FP Lipari. The maestro / owners version.

I would never go for a 10 year + cat if you can afford the money you mention. Maybe 3 year or younger.
Happy hunting
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Old 24-08-2011, 05:19   #7
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Re: Which Is Which

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Originally Posted by Multihull View Post
I am not sure about taxes in your side of the world but I think you can buy a new L380 or FP Mahe. I would look for those. Or maybe a few year old L400 or FP Lipari. The maestro / owners version.

I would never go for a 10 year + cat if you can afford the money you mention. Maybe 3 year or younger.
Happy hunting
I totally agree with you on 10 years + is too long but there was that thought that back in those good old days work was done better, to a standard and not a price. As for the L 380 there is the 2008 S2 not very far from us that has taken our eye, just a 40min trip most of the others mentioned are 8 to 12 hours away, so we were thinking of going over that one first to get a good feel of a cat and if we are happy with the room it has we may not have to look much further, but with a boat that size I'd be concerned about the "see sawing" affect that I read in one of the threads, arrr decisions decisions, I'm only going to go through this once, I hope.
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Old 24-08-2011, 12:06   #8
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Re: Which Is Which

Sandy posted about modern cats being solid FG below the waterline instead of cored. I went to the Lagoon website and found no specific mention of this. So, are Lagoons cored below the waterline and how about the other manufacturers mentioned here or maybe not mentioned here? BOB Just want to know.
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:00   #9
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Re: Which Is Which ?

I believe the Spirited 38 has a really nice design for a motor sailing version that should be in your price range. I'm not sure if any have been built yet.
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:51   #10
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Re: Which Is Which

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I totally agree with you on 10 years + is too long but there was that thought that back in those good old days work was done better, to a standard and not a price. As for the L 380 there is the 2008 S2 not very far from us that has taken our eye, just a 40min trip most of the others mentioned are 8 to 12 hours away, so we were thinking of going over that one first to get a good feel of a cat and if we are happy with the room it has we may not have to look much further, but with a boat that size I'd be concerned about the "see sawing" affect that I read in one of the threads, arrr decisions decisions, I'm only going to go through this once, I hope.

My suggestion is to visit shows, charter your "preferred" boat(s), decide which one you like most and hunt for it worldwide. A selection based on distance is not my preferred approach.
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Old 24-08-2011, 16:17   #11
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Re: Which Is Which ?

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I believe the Spirited 38 has a really nice design for a motor sailing version that should be in your price range. I'm not sure if any have been built yet.
A pro built S380 is well above the $400k mark. Closer to $600k.

It's also a fully cored boat, not that I think there's any problem with that, but the OP apparently does.
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Old 24-08-2011, 16:20   #12
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Re: Which Is Which

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Originally Posted by Peter Richardso View Post
Many thanks for the helpful advise so far, the idea of try before you buy appeals to me but unfortunately in my neck of the woods there is not too many catamaran charters so I'll be relying on advise from people like yourselves to see me through but I can assure that I'll be test sailing before we buy. After reading a lot of reviews and searching what is available I've come up with a list that hopefully with some help from you guys I can shorten down even further it is as follows;
Lagoon 410 2004 and 1999, 380 S2 2008, 380 2002, 47ft 1999.
F.P. Venezia 1998, Lavezzi 2008,2005, and possibily a 1997 Bahia
Perry 43ft 1999
Seawinds 1200 1999, 1998
lastly a 42ft 2004 leopard but it is in New Zealand so I'd have to do all the importing I might add that this is the only leopard I could find in my price range.
For sure different strokes for different folks what appeals to some may not appeal to others so I am very open to any suggestions made, I know in the end it will be my choice which suits me doing what I want to do but as I mentioned earlier I need a little help shorting the list.
From that list I'd be looking at the Perry. (You did say motorsailor) Very solid boats.
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Old 24-08-2011, 16:22   #13
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Re: Which Is Which ?

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....after talking to a guy at the weekend cored hulls are another no no, .....

Pete
Keep talking to "guys", and pretty soon you'll learn that you shouldn't buy ANY boat.

I'm surprised you don't already know that cats are dangerous, flip all over the place, can't cross oceans, shouldn't be taken out of sight of land, etc etc....
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Old 24-08-2011, 16:38   #14
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Re: Which Is Which ?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Keep talking to "guys", and pretty soon you'll learn that you shouldn't buy ANY boat.

I'm surprised you don't already know that cats are dangerous, flip all over the place, can't cross oceans, shouldn't be taken out of sight of land, etc etc....
I was just about to get quite cross then I saw who posted it, well done, you beat the 'cat bashers' to it!

I echo the above comments, 400k for a 10 year old? You can get a nearly new or even BRAND NEW boat for that.

Size wise, I'd say comming from a 38ft mono, don't bother going bigger than 40ft unless that particular boat really suits you. A 40ft cat' has roughly the same volume as 60ft mono, plenty for sure.
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Old 24-08-2011, 22:46   #15
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Re: Which Is Which ?

I am currently in your position, I am looking for a cat between 38 and 45 foot, I found Yachthub to contain a lot of cats, from all over,
I am currently in the process of buying a 34 foot Gemini from Fiji, I was looking at a 38 foot prout at Sandringham, but internal area is probably the same as the Gemini, A lot more expensive for the prout,
Fountain 36 foot, new is $400,000 AUD. Gemini 34 foot, is $300,000 AUD new, Seawind is about $500,000AUD new,
Just some thing for you to go on.
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