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Old 11-06-2018, 13:57   #1
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Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

Which would be better going to weather on a passage with difficult sea state, for example doing the Baja Bash from La Paz, Mexico to Southern California, a Hanse 575 or Lagoon 42? Primary considerations ought to be safety and comfort.
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Old 11-06-2018, 14:22   #2
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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Which would be better going to weather on a passage with difficult sea state, for example doing the Baja Bash from La Paz, Mexico to Southern California, a Hanse 575 or Lagoon 42? Primary considerations ought to be safety and comfort.
I have not sailed on either boat yet.
And I don't claim to be the most experienced sailor on CF.
So take the following opinion with a splash of saltwater.

Given the need to go a long distance against the prevailing wind, wave, and current, that the Baja Bash represents, I would prefer to make that voyage on a large monohull that has a good dodger or pilothouse..

In any case, you are likely to be motorsailing.

I have bashed upwind and against waves for hundreds of miles on a large 52 foot cruising Catamaran. If the seas are short and short period, it can be like going over speed bumps in a car or truck, causing bone jarring pounding and pounding abrupt wave slaps that sound like the boat is hitting a submerged container.. Not very comfortable to go upwind against waves on any boat, but boats do behave differently when close hauled in strong conditions.

I have bashed up the California coast in 20+knots and against large swells in a 42 foot monohull. It can be exhausting for Crew, and on one boat I was on, the other three crew, including the captain were very seasick. Fortunately for me, I don't get seasick, so I stood at the helm and hand steered the boat from Monterrey to San Francisco while the others moaned, groaned, and puked while down below. I enjoyed being up on deck, facing the wind and waves, at the helm of the 42 footer. Thrilling at the time. With spray flying back over the bow!

Given your two boats as options I would pick the Hanse 575, going north up Baja. If going south, with the wind and waves, I would enjoy both boats, but suspect I would prefer the ride of the cat.

Here is a review of the Hanse 575 that describes its sailing in 15 knots of wind. The Broker said that was near the point of reefing the main. The boat has a self tacking jib.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/b...view-hanse-575

Hope that helps.

I suspect other Catamaran sailors will have direct experience off Baja and can add their anecdotes.

Please remember, my comments are NOT a slam against cats. I really enjoyed the ride on the cat I was on, and marveled that things did not get thrown around much, because we did not heel as much as we would have on a monohull going upwind. It is a different ride.

When you do pick your boat and make that trip, come back and tell us how it went.
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Old 11-06-2018, 15:46   #3
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

It also depends on the angle. My experience is lagoons won't do much better than 60 apparent.

A problem with alot of new monos is their forefoot is quite flat therefore in certain conditions they can slam at times. The Hanses tend to be quite deep draft from what I see, this is an advantage here.

We recently did a 400nm to weather. Our buddy boat was a island spirit 37, it slammed very badly, in fact broke its boom. One of the crew said during and after that "I thought the hulls were going to break". Bridgedeck clearance matters, I'm not sure what the bridgedeck clearance is on the Lagoon.
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Old 11-06-2018, 15:47   #4
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

Upwind, longer is pretty much always better. Certainly 57' vs 42.
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Old 11-06-2018, 15:50   #5
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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Originally Posted by Augi View Post
Which would be better going to weather on a passage with difficult sea state, for example doing the Baja Bash from La Paz, Mexico to Southern California, a Hanse 575 or Lagoon 42? Primary considerations ought to be safety and comfort.
I haven't sailed either, but IMHO, cats shine off the wind. If I had to be beating into big seas, give me a monohull, and the longer the waterline, the better.
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Old 11-06-2018, 15:59   #6
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

A curious pair to choose from. Are you trying to decide who to crew for on the trip home? I'd go with the Hanse but be sure you stipulate you get an AFT cabin bunk! Don't let them stick you up in the bow!
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Old 11-06-2018, 18:51   #7
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

If I had to choose between the 2 I would opt for the 57' mono. The Baja bash is really just motoring to windward with the main up for extra drive, unless you are very fortunate in your weather windows. I expect the Hanse would have better motoring speed and would be less affected by windage. That extra 14' of waterline will really help to smooth the seas and all that mass will help push through the seas.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:37   #8
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

Also when is this? Would be interested to see the passage plan as I am hoping to be doing Panama to Mexico this summer. Yes I know I am mad, just checking the OP is as well or is planning for the end of the season. Some people sign up for deliveries without knowing what they are letting themselves in for!
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:45   #9
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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Also when is this? Would be interested to see the passage plan as I am hoping to be doing Panama to Mexico this summer. Yes I know I am mad, just checking the OP is as well or is planning for the end of the season. Some people sign up for deliveries without knowing what they are letting themselves in for!

Hi Roland,

The question was hypothetical. It is not actually happening. Good luck on your passage from Panama to Mexico.
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:45   #10
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

When bashed to Ensenada from San Jose del Cabo we found that all but one of the other bashers that had fin keels had delivery crews and that all of the full keeled boats had their owners at the helm. Just another aspect of beating in poor conditions.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:13   #11
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

To clarify where my original post is coming from my wife and I will be buying a boat to be based in Southern California to enable us to explore the entire west coast of North America. We want the boat to at least have the amenities of a Hanse 575 or Lagoon 42, but does not necessarily need to be one of those models. Because of the passages that we will need to do from South to North usually against the wind and against the sea, a mono hull with full keel sounds like would be the best.

A used Hanse 575 costs about $400K-500K. What else should we be looking at with equivalent comfort, amenities, that is a used boat in the $400K-500K price range for our intended use?
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:18   #12
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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To clarify where my original post is coming from my wife and I will be buying a boat to be based in Southern California to enable us to explore the entire west coast of North America. We want the boat to at least have the amenities of a Hanse 575 or Lagoon 42, but does not necessarily need to be one of those models. Because of the passages that we will need to do from South to North usually against the wind and against the sea, a mono hull with full keel sounds like would be the best.

A used Hanse 575 costs about $400K-500K. What else should we be looking at with equivalent comfort, amenities, that is a used boat in the $400K-500K price range for our intended use?
Hi.
What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice and with the sole intent to help you.

I think it will help other CF members help you better if you give us a description of your own sailing experience so far (where, what kind of boats, sizes, etc.).

Knowing something about what one's experience and preferences have been helps others make comments or suggestions that are more fitting.

For example, I would not choose a full keel boat, necessarily.

So, tell us more about you, and your experience and preferences (and needs) and it is more likely you will get more helpful answers from others.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:22   #13
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

You need to think how much time the boat will spend going upwind and downwind. Exploring the West Coast is a great idea but there is not that much to explore between Socal, SF Bay and Seattle. It is just a bare coast most of the time. So you will be spending most of the time cruising around these three areas with rare passages among the three areas.

Going upwind is painful but if you pick your weather window and you motor you can do it quite efficiently and quickly. For example, you can go from Socal to Seattle in one week motoring all the way up. You will probably do the North trip no more than once a year. Either boat will do, the monohull is better for going upwind but that is only a week/year. For the rest of the time the Lagoon will be a better all around boat for the space, view, etc.

I would say more important considerations should be berthing space and cost, your personal preference (some people hate catamarans even through they are better) and the consideration that once you get tired of the West coast you will head to the South Pacific and that is downwind sailing for which the catamaran is optimal.

If I were making the choice, I would go monohull, simply because I enjoy sailing upwind and racing locally. If you are indifferent, I would suggest the cat.

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Old 12-06-2018, 11:45   #14
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

If you want the comfort of a catamaran and want to have a lot of upwind sailing to do, (not just 10 days in 365 days) then a dagger board cat with good bridge deck clearance should be considered such as any > 40ft Catana or Outremer for example.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:47   #15
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

Augi, I think you are very sensible comparing a longer monohull with a shorter cat. Many people seem compare a 42 foot monohull with a 42 foot cat and complain about the extra cost of the cat, or the reduced space on the monohull.

Once you realise a cat has much larger beam and compare similar overall sized boats rather than concentrating on the same LOA, the differences become much less.

There are still important differences and it is on these aspects that you should focus. Windward ability is just one factor. It is obviously important to your requirements and of the two boats you mention the Hanse would easily win on this criterion, but there are many other factors.
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