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Old 12-06-2018, 13:19   #16
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pirate Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

You could always take a couple of steps up in class from a Hanse..

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Old 12-06-2018, 14:47   #17
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
Also when is this? Would be interested to see the passage plan as I am hoping to be doing Panama to Mexico this summer. Yes I know I am mad, just checking the OP is as well or is planning for the end of the season. Some people sign up for deliveries without knowing what they are letting themselves in for!
Upwind 700 miles go monohull. I dont see any multis on the Baja bash in fact they are all spending the summer in Sea of Cortez.

I don't think you get consistent Bashlike conditions on W coast of S America. Totally different problems.

Timing is important. As I write I am 20 nm S of San Diego just finished my 2nd B bash. It's no fun in June, probably worst month for it. Did it before in May and much easier.

We use only reefed main. Very flat that way, and no need for sail power unless wind over 18 or so, then fall off a bit to keep up boatspeed and motortack to clear coast AR.

Whatever you go with, make sure it has very good protection from the elements for helmsman.
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Old 12-06-2018, 14:54   #18
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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Yes, and for windward sailing there are many better choices in cats than a Lagoon 42
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Old 13-06-2018, 12:07   #19
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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To clarify where my original post is coming from my wife and I will be buying a boat to be based in Southern California to enable us to explore the entire west coast of North America. We want the boat to at least have the amenities of a Hanse 575 or Lagoon 42, but does not necessarily need to be one of those models. Because of the passages that we will need to do from South to North usually against the wind and against the sea, a mono hull with full keel sounds like would be the best.

A used Hanse 575 costs about $400K-500K. What else should we be looking at with equivalent comfort, amenities, that is a used boat in the $400K-500K price range for our intended use?
For your purposes I would suggest you look at pilothouse motorsailors. If you are heading north anywhere along this coast you will want good motoring performance and good protection from the weather.
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Old 14-06-2018, 05:40   #20
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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That Little Harbor is one sweet looking boat.
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Old 14-06-2018, 10:07   #21
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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Roughly what do you think I should budget a year for the boats at the links you suggested over the 5 years? I love the idea of something elegant like what you suggested. However, I fear I would always have to have a bank nearby I could rob regularly and not get caught in order to afford the upkeep.

We will not live aboard the majority of the time and I prefer the motion of mono hull versus a cat. If we were full time "live-a-boards" a Catana or Outremer 45-50 Cat would be better for the liviability. A recent used one of those would cost at least $600K upfront. But all things considered would probably cost less than what you suggested including taking into account resale value in 5 years.
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Old 18-06-2018, 08:14   #22
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

As a retired delivery skipper who has made the trip north in both power and sail, I always ask the owner how fast does he/she want the boat delivered and how much are they willing to pay in refit costs due to broken gear, etc., as a result of driving into a head-on buck up coast for several days?
I have never delivered a multihull north but the experience in several mono’s leads me to believe that a multi could well break up in the worst of the weather like the washing macine just north of Cortez Island!
As an alternative, several times I have headed out about 600 Miles due west of Cabo to avoid the worst of the weather and sea conditions before hanging a right for San Diego or LA. Each time I did that it was a cake walk and added less than a week to the trip. Far easier on the vessel and crew as well.
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Old 18-06-2018, 09:09   #23
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

In the mid 60's my cousin Mike's best friend Potatohead Pete had just graduated high school in the San Fernando Valley. He was asked my an older man he met if he would like to sail to Cabo San Lucas with him. It took them over a month to reach Cabo from Long Beach, California in the 14' racer the old guy owned. Pete did not expect such tight quarters, but he had never sailed before and they had a nice sail. To return they made one tack that the captain told Pete culminated 400 miles offshore. Again, Pete did not know any better, so was happy to do it. To my memory he never cruised again, but was an avid small boat fisherman in So Cal when we occasionally worked together in construction. When we bashed back in Mana, after passing Cedros, the longest 60 hours of my life, we stopped every night sometimes for a few days to see some of the places we missed in the Baja HaHa.
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Old 18-06-2018, 09:27   #24
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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As a retired delivery skipper who has made the trip north in both power and sail, I always ask the owner how fast does he/she want the boat delivered and how much are they willing to pay in refit costs due to broken gear, etc., as a result of driving into a head-on buck up coast for several days?
I have never delivered a multihull north but the experience in several mono’s leads me to believe that a multi could well break up in the worst of the weather like the washing macine just north of Cortez Island!
As an alternative, several times I have headed out about 600 Miles due west of Cabo to avoid the worst of the weather and sea conditions before hanging a right for San Diego or LA. Each time I did that it was a cake walk and added less than a week to the trip. Far easier on the vessel and crew as well.
Phil

Im not a west coast guy but I have always wondered why more boats don't do that. Just looking at the pilot charts is enough to sell me on the idea.
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Old 18-06-2018, 09:41   #25
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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As a retired delivery skipper who has made the trip north in both power and sail, I always ask the owner how fast does he/she want the boat delivered and how much are they willing to pay in refit costs due to broken gear, etc., as a result of driving into a head-on buck up coast for several days?
I have never delivered a multihull north but the experience in several mono’s leads me to believe that a multi could well break up in the worst of the weather like the washing macine just north of Cortez Island!
As an alternative, several times I have headed out about 600 Miles due west of Cabo to avoid the worst of the weather and sea conditions before hanging a right for San Diego or LA. Each time I did that it was a cake walk and added less than a week to the trip. Far easier on the vessel and crew as well.
Phil
Thanks for your feedback. The good news we will not be in a rush and enjoy the sailing if the conditions are decent. That means we can pick the weather window and tack less to windward and go west for hundreds of miles as needed before turning right. All this helps us determine what boat would be best and how to equip her.
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Old 18-06-2018, 09:56   #26
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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You need to think how much time the boat will spend going upwind and downwind. Exploring the West Coast is a great idea but there is not that much to explore between Socal, SF Bay and Seattle. It is just a bare coast most of the time. So you will be spending most of the time cruising around these three areas with rare passages among the three areas.

Going upwind is painful but if you pick your weather window and you motor you can do it quite efficiently and quickly. For example, you can go from Socal to Seattle in one week motoring all the way up. You will probably do the North trip no more than once a year. Either boat will do, the monohull is better for going upwind but that is only a week/year. For the rest of the time the Lagoon will be a better all around boat for the space, view, etc.

I would say more important considerations should be berthing space and cost, your personal preference (some people hate catamarans even through they are better) and the consideration that once you get tired of the West coast you will head to the South Pacific and that is downwind sailing for which the catamaran is optimal.

If I were making the choice, I would go monohull, simply because I enjoy sailing upwind and racing locally. If you are indifferent, I would suggest the cat.

SV Pizzazz
A fair amount of thought went into choosing to do a our sailing on the West Coat of North America. A among the reasons are proximity(great connections to La Paz and LAX), from where we are based(Guatemala), we already live in a third world type place and want to spend time when not sailing in the 1rst World, year around sailing season in Southern Cal / Channel Islands with no need for air conditioning, relatively low humidity for coastal areas from Southern Cal south, the relatively untouched, natural beauty of the Sea of Cortez(we both speak Spanish).

We do not mind the distances between the better cruising grounds on the West Coast of North America. We are not in a hurry and enjoy the sailing a lot if the boat is comfortable and the conditions decent. If the the conditions are decent there is nothing we would rather be doing than sailing. We can take the time to pick weather windows and when going South to North tack west even hundreds of miles to have decent sailing conditions as needed.

We are putting a lot of thought into what boat we buy that will suit the sailing we will be doing. Safety and comfort are the two top parameters.
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Old 18-06-2018, 15:48   #27
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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I have never delivered a multihull north but the experience in several mono’s leads me to believe that a multi could well break up in the worst of the weather like the washing macine just north of ...
Phil
I've never sailed a mono (actually I have) but my experience riding bicycles leads me to believe that a mono could well lose it's keel and sink in even the nicest weather.

This is a ridiculous statement competition isn't it?
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Old 18-06-2018, 17:43   #28
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

Going direct upwind is foolish unless its the only choice. Which is why folks heading to San Francisco from the Canal head out to Hawaii and then hook a right.
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Old 18-06-2018, 19:35   #29
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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Which would be better going to weather on a passage with difficult sea state, for example doing the Baja Bash from La Paz, Mexico to Southern California, a Hanse 575 or Lagoon 42? Primary considerations ought to be safety and comfort.

Having done the Bash six years in a row now in April/May in my Lagoon 450, I have had varying experiences but wouldn't want to give up the comfort of my cat. I call my Bash the Run & Duck and it takes me an average 13 days from San Jose del Cabo. Leaving San Jose topped up with fuel I have made it twice all the way to San Diego on 1000 liter. When rough conditions catch me on the Run more than when in the Duck, I need to take on fuel in Turtle Bay.


My sweet spot is 1700-2000 RPMs so patience is key.


This year was exceptionally tough demanding 50 more hours of motoring (250 more liters of fuel) than in 2017.


During the Bash, major life decisions are off limits and on hold until your voyage is long behind you.
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Old 19-06-2018, 11:06   #30
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Re: Which is better going to weather on a long passage?

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I have never delivered a multihull north but the experience in several mono’s leads me to believe that a multi could well break up in the worst of the weather like the washing macine just north of Cortez Island!

Phil
Are you for real? Multihulls sail all over the world and are true bluewater vessels. Any boat can break up anywhere if sailed poorly (hell, La Vagabond just broke their boom due to bad line handling on a jibe), but Multis are absolutely safe for a competent sailor. The only bad real world stories I ever read about multis are cocky rich guys taking their Gunboats deliberately into a storm and the like.
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