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Old 03-03-2008, 05:22   #1
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Question Which engine for 45 footer

I am getting a 45 foot Lightwave catamaran built (lightwaveyachts.com) The boat weighs 6.5 t light displacement/max displacement 9.5 t. The builder gives me a choice between the D2 40 and the D2 55 volvo pentas - for the same price. The etxra weight for the D2 55 is 60 kgs each engine. Looking at their performance graphics I should get similar performance for fuel consumtion? if I can resist the temptation to rev up and go faster. Additional info: I will use 4x 130 watt solar panals and cruise at this stage mainly in the tropics - no generator, no air con, well insulated fridge and freezer, LEDs. A similar set up on my present cat makes it reasonably energy neutral without running the engines to much.
Any suggestions - Ideas - explanations.
Thanks
Nils
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:34   #2
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2 engines at even 40 hp seems like massive overpower for a 10t boat Now is the time to specify something else besides Volvo Penta, as their spare parts pricing policy borders on piracy.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:30   #3
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2 engines at even 40 hp seems like massive overpower for a 10t boat Now is the time to specify something else besides Volvo Penta, as their spare parts pricing policy borders on piracy.

Volvo Saildrive 7yr service - jeepers!!!

Yanmar starts to sound better and better.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:30   #4
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I run 2 yanmar 27 hp engines. I burn approximently 3/4 a gal. of fuel between the 2 of them at 2200rpm. Yes, it's a sailboat, but sometimes you have adverse currents running hard against you in tight spots. You want to be able to overcome that. Sometimes with no wind it is nice to maintain a descent speed with low rpms, and descent fuel consumption.
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:04   #5
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according to the website. the boat comes with D1-30's and does 9.5kts with them. That would be my chioce of power if I couldn't get Yanmar 3YM30's
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:42   #6
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I have decided to go with Yanmars for my new boat, due to worldwide parts availability, but if weight is an issue, you could look at some of the lighter stuff around like Nanni. (http://www.nannidiesel.com/english/index.htm)

They and others use Kubota engines.

There is also Lombardini who offer both air and watercooled lightweight engines. see: Lombardini Diesel Engines: Industrial & marine Lombarini diesel engines and Lombardini diesel generator sets from Powertech Engines Inc -- Authorized Ford Power Products, Iveco Motors, and Lombardini diesel Engine Distributor who also sells Lombardin. The Lombardini site is only for the already initiated..

Another reason I have chosen to go with the 39 hp Yanmars, is that they offer a very compact and lightweight generator that fits between the flywheel and the gearbox. 3 KVA at 31 kgs. 6KVA about 15 kgs more.

But the whole package is alot heavier than the Volvo one, even without the generator. I have been told that Yanmar will be releasing their own bus based engine controls system later this year, this saves some weight.

I am enclosing some info I got from Yanmar. There is some more but exceeds the upload limits here, but if you want all 8 Mb, drop me a message and I can send it directly.

Regards

Alan
Attached Files
File Type: pdf flywheel generator.pdf (347.6 KB, 149 views)
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Old 03-03-2008, 13:30   #7
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We build a comparable size catamaran lenght 13.90 width 7.50 empty weigth 5 tons metric loaded weight 9 tons 30 hp lombardini,s work fine top speed 9.1 knots , with 40 hp lombardini,s 9.3 knots , with 2 x 20 hp 8,8 knots so 2 x 50 is overkill, for your fantastic cat. I would go for 2 x 30 save some weight save some fuel and sail faster.
Use 2 blade folding Flex o Fold racing props and you are out and away.
good luck and happy sailing
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Old 03-03-2008, 15:10   #8
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Question

Thanks everyone for their replies so far.
There are two things that I learn from them
1 I should be ok with 40 hp or less and folding props
2 There is not much sympathy for VOLVOs out there

1 the 45 sport model has been built 8 times so far and previous owners always opted for the larger engines some even got D2 75s so all the 'data' on the 40s are 'guesstimates' but judging from what you all say 40hp should be plenty.

2 I understand the argument concerning spare parts. Does anyone also think there are issues with reliability/longivity in the VOLVOs? What are the reasons that make Yanmar the better engine? What about the saildrives? I found some threads that had bad things to say about the Yanmar saildrives.

Thanks again to all who make the effort to answer. It is a great help for me in the decision making process. Hulls are finished and joined. The bridge deck is getting built at the moment.

Nils
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Old 03-03-2008, 16:43   #9
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Does anyone also think there are issues with reliability/longevity in the VOLVOs? No, I think they are equally reliable


What are the reasons that make Yanmar the better engine? parts availabilty, dealer availablity, parts cost

What about the saildrives? I found some threads that had bad things to say about the Yanmar saildrives. The negative comments are directed at the SD20. There are other models.

Nils
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Old 04-03-2008, 13:43   #10
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The SD40 also has problems according to Peter Johnstone, the builder of Gunboat per Saildrive oil leak - Sailing Anarchy Forums
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Old 04-03-2008, 13:50   #11
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The SD40 also has problems according to Peter Johnstone, the builder of Gunboat per Saildrive oil leak - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Steve,
I can't condone an entire series of units on one persons experience. And the oil leak in that thread was on an SD20, not a 40
That would be like saying all Island Packets are bad because mine leaks.
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Old 04-03-2008, 14:14   #12
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Here is an excerpt from Latitude 38's letters to the editor Latitude 38 Letters - October 2005 on the reliability of saildrives:

YANMAR TRANSMISSIONS
We own a Chris White 54 catamaran, which was repowered from Volvos - a whole different story - to Yanmar 4JH3s with SD40 Saildrives in 2001 and 2002. The 2002 Saildrive's cone clutch failed after 500 hours and the 2001 Saildrive's cone clutch did the same after 700 hours. I am aware of numerous other SD40s with the same problem. The fact that Yanmar has now introduced the SD50 speaks to the design problem.
Yanmar stonewalled us, but eventually paid for the failure of the first saildrive. "Negotiations" are underway for #2.
Obviously, we hope nobody else has a similar saildrive problem, but if they have or do, I'd like to hear about it because there is strength in numbers when it comes to negotiating. It's my understanding Latitude has had some problems with the saildrives on Profligate.
By the way, after the first failure, we learned that the saildrive does not care if it is in reverse or forward. So when we couldn't get the transmission into forward, we replaced our Martec folding props with an opposite handed set of blades, and using these, were able to 'get home' from Mexico.
Tom Purcell
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Tom - For the record, over the course of about 5,000 hours, we've had two SD31 Saildrives fail - although one failure didn't have anything to do with the clutch cone. In December of '03, we replaced the SD31s with SD40s - only to later learn Yamaha also made more robust 50s. We'd have rather put those in, although we've yet to have problems with our 40s.
Thanks for the tip about the saildrives running in reverse as well as forward - but what were you doing carrying some opposite handed props?
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Old 04-03-2008, 14:22   #13
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The Voyage owner site also has several reports of SD40 cone clutch failures and better luck with the SD50's.

Mark
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Old 04-03-2008, 23:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Here is an excerpt from Latitude 38's letters to the editor Latitude 38 Letters - October 2005 on the reliability of saildrives:

YANMAR TRANSMISSIONS
We own a Chris White 54 catamaran, which was repowered from Volvos - a whole different story - to Yanmar 4JH3s with SD40 Saildrives in 2001 and 2002. The 2002 Saildrive's cone clutch failed after 500 hours and the 2001 Saildrive's cone clutch did the same after 700 hours. I am aware of numerous other SD40s with the same problem. The fact that Yanmar has now introduced the SD50 speaks to the design problem.
Yanmar stonewalled us, but eventually paid for the failure of the first saildrive. "Negotiations" are underway for #2.
Obviously, we hope nobody else has a similar saildrive problem, but if they have or do, I'd like to hear about it because there is strength in numbers when it comes to negotiating. It's my understanding Latitude has had some problems with the saildrives on Profligate.
By the way, after the first failure, we learned that the saildrive does not care if it is in reverse or forward. So when we couldn't get the transmission into forward, we replaced our Martec folding props with an opposite handed set of blades, and using these, were able to 'get home' from Mexico.
Tom Purcell
Planet Earth
Tom - For the record, over the course of about 5,000 hours, we've had two SD31 Saildrives fail - although one failure didn't have anything to do with the clutch cone. In December of '03, we replaced the SD31s with SD40s - only to later learn Yamaha also made more robust 50s. We'd have rather put those in, although we've yet to have problems with our 40s.
Thanks for the tip about the saildrives running in reverse as well as forward - but what were you doing carrying some opposite handed props?
On my St Francis we have had to replace one saildrive after 600 hours 3 years due to bearing failure at our cost no warranty or coulance, cost 4000 euro.
gideon
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Old 05-03-2008, 02:09   #15
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Hi Nils,
I never heard about Lightwave Catamarans until I read your post. Since then I have been reading as much as I can about this catamaran.



The figures sure do look promising :
L : 45 / 13m70 B : 24 / 7m30 Displ.: 14 300 / 6500 kg
Sail area with genoa : 1255 / 116,5 m2

What about the build quality of these cats ? Can you compare them with the better French cats ( Privilege, Catana ) ?

Concerning your post about choice of engines. With a realistic load of about 9000 kg the Volvo D2 will be sufficient. A good friend of mine has one of these in his 38 foot monohull and it runs smooth and reliable.

Greetz,

Koen
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