Which cat for live aboard with 120,000 US budget

[Downhereinmexic]

Back on thread ...

If I went for the pdq 36 and say it was 1993 or some such year ... what kind of refit or upkeep will there be? .. in general I mean as we don't yet know the actual cat.

I would like to think that $15,000 US will be enough for refit. Please don't kill that idea. LOL.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by Downhereinmexic

Back on thread ...

If I went for the pdq 36 and say it was 1993 or some such year ... what kind of refit or upkeep will there be? .. in general I mean as we don't yet know the actual cat.

I would like to think that $15,000 US will be enough for refit. Please don't kill that idea. LOL.

You won't knot the answer to this question until you are evaluating *actual* boats.

Take mine. I got a reasonable deal - not stellar, but not bad either.

To outfit for crossing oceans, we need to add:

*Autohelm
*SSB
*Liferaft
*EPIRB (I guess...)
*New Standing Rigging

However, that is small potatoes!

I shopped long and hard (and like a madman) to find a cat in your price range that was structurally sound, able to make ocean crossings and in the kind of shape where I didn't have to do anything to it as far as refit goes.

The boat I bought was literally "turn key."

I added a windlass (old one froze during survey), a battery bank (left for dead), and messed around with some things previous owners did that were incorrect.

I fixed the majority of the problems with this boat in 2 weeks flat and at maybe a couple hundred dollars in expense.

Now, I'm happily living aboard and she works perfectly.

That type of deal is a hard thing to pull off...

But... you can't know until you have *real* boats to evaluate. My experience is on one end the spectrum. Yours (depending on the boat, price, etc...) could be on the other end - 12 mos full time refitting and $50K. You just don't know until you have real boats and can evaluate the condition of those real boats.

The refit estimate is something you can make only after you identify several boats of the type you're buying and then budget to upgrade them to the condition you expect them to be in.

[sandy daugherty]

Well, Downhereinmexico: Take this list and scratch off everything the boat of your dreams already has:

So far I have bought:

radar, GPS Chartplotter, VHF w/DSC, (stolen), another VHF w/DSC and remote mic, new head and head hoses, overhauled both original engines, new depth and speed tansducers, new air conditioning water pump">raw water pump, new on demand water heater, overhauled two winches, replaced microwave, bought used bowsprit, installed mounting points, used roller furling screacher, New main, battens, doubled halyard, new genoa, two new engines, another radar (color) as part of New Garmin network, (two displays, radar, XM weather), fluxgate compass, New electronics bay, new wiring, new NMEA 0183 network to accomodate AIS receiver (SR161), brickhouse multiplexor, RM data interface, USB to new boat computer with powered USB hub, db9 connector for Pactor Modem and (future) Icom 802 ssb and antenna tuner, space for future ACR AIS B and antennas and Interphase forward scanning sonar (displays on chart plotters, TV and computer), and (just arrived this afternoon) long range IR camera for spotting crab pots at night.

Thats the fun stuff. Also bought were:

bed linens and towels, dishes cups and drinking glasses, cutlery, condiments, pots pans and pressure cooker, tools, engine spares and maintenance items, charts guides and software ($$$$), paid for professional service for A/C and watermaker, did my own bottom paint, touchup paint, brushes and rollers, wire and cable, connectors and crimps, crimper and stripper, resin, hardener, glass cloth, gelcoat, filler, LOTS of sand paper, putty, scrapers, putty knives, trowels, splines, paid for extensive repairs to bimini and sailcover, replace running rigging, docklines, fender lines, and four sizes of life jackets.

And thats just the stuff I can remember. There were also innumerable trips to West Marine for screws, marine tex, different size screws, more of the right size screws, starboard, special-ordered fixtures to match the old ones, stereos, magazines, weather gear">foul weather gear, boat shoes, etc.

Even a new boat needs more than $15,000 worth of 'stuff'. And you still need food, beverages, and, and, oh yeah, TOILET PAPER!

[sandy daugherty]

Don't sweat the beam issue. You aren't going into any slips. You tie along side the fuel dock or a transient pier, and spend the rest of the time at anchor far away from the Happy Times Bar and Loud Speaker Place. With the rest of the cruising crowd, where simple and mellow rules.

[Steve Rust]

How about a Prout Snowgoose. Right in the price range with a sterling safety record. You have a choice of a little more room in the Elite model or better sailing performance with the regular Snowgoose. This boat would be right at home in the Bahamas or could take you around the world.

[Downhereinmexic]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

Don't sweat the beam issue. You aren't going into any slips. You tie along side the fuel dock or a transient pier, and spend the rest of the time at anchor far away from the Happy Times Bar and Loud Speaker Place. With the rest of the cruising crowd, where simple and mellow rules.

I like your thinking. That IS where I will be at.

30' beam it is then ... joking

[ssullivan]

OMG!!! I think I might have to change my username to Wiggles, in honor of Downhereinmexic's user icon! That way Downhereinmexic can boss me around a bit.

"I'm going to get a boat... with hookers... and blackjack... forget the boat."

Man, any fan of Futurama is a friend of mine!

[sandy daugherty]

The Holy Grail of Used Boats is the one that has been fanatically maintained by someone who knows better than to shop at Home Depot for parts. Most older boats will have layers of repairs by each subsequent owner that have little more than archeological value. So you hope to find a boat not maintained by a "do-it-yourselfer" but by a "do-it-righter". This is the boat that a surveyor has to take extra time with, to find something (anything) to complain about. If he looks like he might make an offer on it himself, you have found the Holy Grail. Everything works right. There aren't any "mystery wires" and the bilges are not populated with broken "spares."

[Islander]

I'd suggest you join the Yahoo Gemini group and read unvarnished opinions from actual owners. You'll be surprised by how tough these boats are and how happy the owners are with them.

Cheers.

[sandy daugherty]

Thats a little like a "Most Beautiful Baby" contest. Unfortunately, theres no "Ex-Gemini Owners Group" for a balance of opinions.

[Islander]

Over 1000 boats out there, Gemini must be doing something right - they're still in business despite the economic downturn.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

Thats a little like a "Most Beautiful Baby" contest. Unfortunately, theres no "Ex-Gemini Owners Group" for a balance of opinions.

That is what seems to be the case for all the boats.

I have read every word i can find on the Gemini except the Yahoo stuff (because I have yet to click "I agree". Have you actually read that s**t?) and like all the other boat owners I have met, the inadequacies are glossed over as "all boats are a compromise".

But, Living aboard a Gemini would be very difficult in my view. I don't want to "camp" full time.

[Islander]

What kind of features, in your opinion, would remove the element of camping from a boat?

Some would require 80'+, paid crew and all that entails, for instance, so I wonder what you would need.

Cheers.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Islander

Some would require 80'+, paid crew

Cheers.

LOL

I was going to qualify the camping idea but that would be some sort of long discourse that is individualized, like boats.

One for me is a place at least 6'6" that I can stretch out in, in the salon. I am 6'4". I also want a place to almost stretch while standing and remain protected from rain. That can separate camping for me in one criteria. Some boats I have seen that I will never be able to afford have this.

Since I now feel there is a distinct possibility that by the time I could "go" I will not have the physical strength or health to "go". When /if this is realized I will find another armchair. A year ago things were fine in my mind but things change and I do not live alone.

[Islander]

In your case, that rules out the vast majority of boats - cars, planes and trains must be an issue as well .

If you join the Yahoo group, just read the archives - starting yet another "how do you like your boat?" thread is not very productive.

The 105Mc is rated CE category A, for what that is worth. The main issue with taking it offshore is capacity to carry supplies for extended trips. One just arrived in Fatu Hiva from the Galapagos (3000nm) with 2 crew in 21 days, not too shabby (theslapdash.com).

As for the "all boats are compromises" comment, take a look at the
"Fast Cruisingcatamarans? How fast?" thread.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ast-17678.html

From page 5 on it seems to be all they can talk about!