Where Did I go Wrong ?

[ausaviator]

Thank Cotemar, makes perfect sense.

I do always like to enquire more on the price though if I'm going to travel half way across the world to view it.

I once rang about an aircraft that was advertised at 29k negotiable. When I spoke to the owner he said he wanted 20k. It was definitely worth asking! I actually ended up buying one for 28k that was advertised for 46k !!

In the end, a fair amount of time has passed since these emails and I believe it is still for sale! The silly thing for the seller is that by me asking his lowest price doesn't necessarily mean that I'm not prepared to pay the asking price. In this instance, $120k is quite reasonable!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Standard boat buying protocol is:
1) Find a boat you like
2) Ask for more information and pictures
3) Make the decision if it’s worth the sellers asking price
4) Go back and forth with question and answers
5) Go view the boat
6) Make and offer. Give deposit
7) If seller and buyer cannot agree on price. Get back deposit. Look for another boat.

Perfect list Cotemar. Clear. Succinct. I would only add:

6.1). Have the boat professionally surveyed (unless the buyer is fully competent to do so, or the price of the boat is so low as to make this a waste).
6.2) Take it out for a sea trial to confirm all is as you understand it to be.

[Cotemar]

Mike OReilly,

Yes, I agree add in 6.1)Survey and 6.2)sea trial.
I think they never made it past.

4) Go back and forth with question and answers
5) Go view the boat

[David_Old_Jersey]

I too struggled to work out who was Gary and who was Brad. and then gave up.

From what I can see the Vendor (very politely ) told the prospective buyer to f#ck off .....simply on the basis that he was too much like hard work......and then slightly less politely (but just not impolite enough to be understood ).

Whether that is a good strategy to sell is open to debate - but an Owner is not a Broker, so less patience for blowing smoke up yer jacksy whilst letting someone who appears confused / unable to read / doesn't understand what he is trying to do.....drivel on ad nauseum .

Personally I would have done the same, unless I was very keen for a sale.

No offence meant (to either Brad, Gary or Uncle Tom Cobbley - whoever they may be )

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Standard boat buying protocol is:
1) Find a boat you like
2) Ask for more information and pictures
3) Make the decision if it’s worth the sellers asking price
4) Go back and forth with question and answers
5) Go view the boat
6) Make and offer. Give deposit
7) If seller and buyer cannot agree on price. Get back deposit. Look for another boat.

Or

1) Find a boat you like
2) Ask for more information and pictures
3) Go back and forth with questions and answers - because Vendor does not understand that a decision to visit the boat (let alone buy!) usually requires more information than a couple of fuzzy photos and a few lines of text saying how great the boat is.
4) Ponder why Vendor is releasing information as if it was part of a hostage negotiation
5) Get bored.
6) lose the will to live
7) Dissapear back into the internet


My advice to a Vendor is to put together ALL the information and pics a buyer will need before listing the boat (even if using a Broker as odds are they will not include everything you tell them / a buyer will need) - and then send all that out in one go when you get a "live one" .

Then you only need to update that info if a prospective buyer asks a question you had not thought of......that way if you find you are dealing with someone who can't read then easy to realise and zero aggro if you can quickly tell 'em to foxtrot oscar .....the alternative is to keep answering the same questions again and again and again and again - which is fine if you do have SFA better to do, and don't mind making life hard for a prospective buyer. Your money and your time.

[barnakiel]

What the heck? Some people get offended, others do not. Some boats sell, now, others next year.

Do not go over the issue of where someone went wrong as next time it will be another person on the other side of the wire and by creating a 'wisdom' now, you will only make your future reactions unnatural (and, potentially, inadequate).

Be nice to everybody but be yourself! Or else hire a broker/representative (ask your partner, etc..) to deal with PR.

Good luck!
b.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Standard boat buying protocol is:
1) Find a boat you like
2) Ask for more information and pictures
3) Make the decision if it’s worth the sellers asking price
4) Go back and forth with question and answers
5) Go view the boat
6) Make and offer. Give deposit
7) If seller and buyer cannot agree on price. Get back deposit. Look for another boat.

Many times numbers 5 and 6 are reversed. Make an offer, offer accepted, contract signed, put down a deposit then view the boat. It really sucks when you make plane reservations to see a boat only to find out it has a contract on it when you get there. That's why it's important to tie the boat down with a contract before you spend the money to go see it.

[terminalcitygrl]

Asking for the lowest or expected price from a seller is an often used Craigslist approach to buying anything. People often advertise something for sale at twice the price they would actually accept knowing that a buyer will almost always offer less than advertised. Asking for the lowest price lets a buyer understand better the sellers expectations.

Judging form the price discrepancies on yachtworld vs. nada and other places, I think asking for the lowest price is reasonable. If the advertised price is the lowest price, just say so. And if you think your boat is a great buy for the buyer then itemize why that is, what makes it worth the extra cash. It's not rocket science.

It seems to most folks that asking prices on many boats is really out of line with reality. Lots of discussions here over the past year identifying a 30%-50% mark-up. And especially buyers representing themselves and using broker pricing... sellers have to expect a buyer is going to flat out ask for a better price than advertised.

I would never spend the time and money to travel to look at a boat without full information and pictures + at least a ballpark agreement on final price.

[SearenitySail]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I too struggled to work out who was Gary and who was Brad. and then gave up.

From what I can see the Vendor (very politely ) told the prospective buyer to f#ck off .....simply on the basis that he was too much like hard work......and then slightly less politely (but just not impolite enough to be understood )...

I agree with much of David's view of the situation. From the abridged email postings, the owner obviously has an opinion of the worth of his boat and appears to have little patience with anyone trying to deflate that value.

I have to be honest; when I was looking for my boat the FP Tobago 35 was right behind it on the list. I had chartered both the "Twin" version (subject of this thread) and the 3-cabin, 1-head models. The "twin" is great for two couples, or to keep the kids out of your head (let them clean their own).

When I couldn't find a Lagoon 35, I actually made an offer on a 3-cabin, 1-head Tobago 35 and paid to have it surveyed based on pictures and broker's contention. I attended the survey, and on the basis of the survey and my views of the boat, I lowered my offer--the owner refused my offer and it cost me $700 for the survey. He sat on the boat for another two years without selling it, but I am glad he didn't take my offer because I got my present boat in much better condition for less money (direct from the owner--no broker and it was the boat I wanted in the first place, anyway). It was an easy negotiation, as I knew what the boat was worth and didn't insult him with a low-ball offer. After the survey, he agreed to reduce the price a little and we reached an agreement we both felt good about.

However, if I was looking for a FP Tobago 35 today it would be a "TWIN" model. And if I saw it for $120,000 US in the condition the owner says it is in, I would be on a jet from NY to California tomorrow.

JMHO!

FWIW, I also agree with Cotemar's posts.

Marshall

[sailstoo]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

It ended there when I told him he was a tosser.

The funny parts are "I want the boat to go to a good home."

Is this normal behaviour for someone selling a boat, I mean it's not like it's a horse or a dog after all? !!

Hey you guys are like that with sheep...with some folks it's boats!

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Standard boat buying protocol is:
SNIP
3) Make the decision if it’s worth the sellers asking price

SNIP

I am in the process of looking at/buying a boat and I seldom view the "sellers asking price" as something to be taken seriously.

There have been lots of threads here, and at other sites, about just how much one should take off the asking price when making an offer.

I have been told by brokers when first contacting them (on a few occasions) that the seller is motivated, which sorta means the asking price is just that. I have also seen ads that say "price is firm", in which case I give more weight to the asking price.

As others have pointed out NADA and BoatUS prices are much lower than asking prices, and likely lots of selling prices. So my advice would be to take the asking price with a grain of salt.

As for the original question the one thing that stuck out in the exchange of e-mails was the comment by the seller that :

"I certainly would like to sell the boat, but I'm not desperate; I'd like it to go to a good home."

My take is that this is not so secret code for "the boat is for sale if I am happy selling it". There have also been lots of posts about guys (and gals) putting up boats for sale because their family wants them to sell the boat. So the price is high, or what ever; and the boat is not really for sale unless the buyer must have the boat at any price.

While I do not pretend to be any expert on buying I do know from my limited experience it is fairly easy to tell if the seller is serious about selling the boat and willing to deal.

One personal example from today. I called up about a boat, the broker put me in touch with the dead owner's (the dead owner was estranged from his three ex wives and nine kids) best friend who told me he was only acting out of the goodness of his heart in helping sell the boat. The boat had been docked since December of March, he was not sure, and no one had used it or been on it. However he assured me the outboard would start and run like a top; to which I replied unless it had a trickle charger on it it would probably need a charge before it would start, not to mention dirty fuel, with possible water in it as well. The guy then said I should probably bring my charger, but he would also look for his.

Maybe the boat was/is a good deal but even though I think I am willing to work with the seller being told to bring my own charger seems a little much. So tell me where did I go wrong.

[dirkdig]

Its not that hard to tell a buyer "i will let it go for $115,000" so therefore i am pretty firm on price.
No need to carry on like a wayne kerr.

[ausaviator]

It's been done to death in other threads, however there is no harm in asking the lowest possible price. It usually simply gets more or less a yes or no. Sometimes an advertised price may I include delivery and certain settlement times, eg he expects 90 days but if I offered cash this week he might jump at it. Whatever floats our pat I guess!

[chall]

Personally I think the seller was pretty fair in his dealings with you. Maybe not all warm and fuzzy, but fair.

I like others, read this exchange assuming you were the seller complaining about a pain in the butt buyer wasting your time. I was shocked to find that you are in fact the pain in the butt buyer complaining about what exactly??? That you annoyed the seller sufficiently to make him tell you to get stuffed???

Telling someone they are strange via email is probably not the best way to progress forward with a negotiation IMHO........I also think he had inferred clearly a couple of times that he wasn't willing to lower his price at this stage and I don't believe you took the hint.

I am not saying you aren't a genuine buyer here, or that your not a good guy, but I am saying that AS I read your exchange I jumped to the same conclusions he did. Emails are strange things in the same way that internet forums are. Sometimes without context, without knowing and understand the other individual, words on a screen can take on meaning not initially intended.

If I still wanted the boat??? I would ring the guy, apologise for the misunderstandings via email blaming it on pressure at work or something, reiterate your genuine interest in the boat and arrange to see it, in person the price might move much easier than via endless emails.

[ausaviator]

I guess I did ask a couple of times about the price, but mainly because he never answered the question in the first place. As for the diatribe about brokers and not an honest one out there, well that is his opinion, at least a broker WANTS to sell a boat. Using a broker would also show that you are serious versus sticking up an advert on a whim on a forum for your pride and joy because your Mrs was having a whinge at you.

I'm long over it, it was ages ago, I just happened to see it in my emails the other day when cleaning up so I thought I'd put it out there.

I really don't think he was remotely interested in selling and it's still for sale what must be a year later. At that price it should sell without an issue and quite quickly one would think. His inflated personal opinion of the condition of the vessel considering it is a mid 90's I also find amusing.

Also a bit hard from the other side of the world and a fair assumption that he might have some more photos after owning it for years.

For the record:

Telling someone they are strange via email is probably not the best way to progress forward with a negotiation IMHO........

I had given up on him at that stage.