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Old 05-09-2013, 17:09   #16
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

not cramped;

Charters template - power

scroll down for pictures
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Old 05-09-2013, 18:45   #17
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

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not cramped;

Charters template - power

scroll down for pictures
Nice!

But don't they all roll a lot?
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:51   #18
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

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Nice!

But don't they all roll a lot?
Agreed about being nice, but also yes don't they roll more than a cat would?

Also, the limited cruise speed and increased fuel burn would be a bummer.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:57   #19
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Slight Re-Statement

I'm thinking I should have added to the OP.

It seems that even 40' catamarans are quite close in size to what some might consider small condominiums. I stayed at a hotel in Japan once with a much smaller bathroom than any standard "owners suite" head. By more common standards, of course they don't have as much room as a (1000-2000 sq ft) home or condo.

But what strikes me as most interesting is that they are in fact quite close. I suspect that somewhere in between the 50' and 60' size they are in fact the same.

I've actually never been on a cat that large. So I'm wondering what some may have noticed regarding design and layout. IE., I see from diagrams that the head arrangement on the Lagoon 500 (4 cabin) is quite different and in many ways seems like a huge improvement. Similarly, I wonder how large those in the new Leopard 48 are. I love how the front deck seems to increase "livability."
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:40   #20
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

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FWIW, we've gradually developed criteria to match our own preferences over time:

my point is only that identifying and then searching for the individual features you believe are critical may be fruitful...

And once we satisfy our own criteria, I don't much care whether guests can handle it or not. They're welcome to stay ashore.

-Chris
I think that is a very fundamental and accurate approach (or should be) for most people shopping for a boat and like ranger42 says.... buy it for yourselves not for your guests.
Most tropical living is done on the back deck (or both front and back decks/cockpits in the case of the newest designs) for us anyways,
and even smaller Cats excel at providing a comfortable outdoor living platform and salon area.

Bob
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:31   #21
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

You can rent a 60' houseboat on the Kentucky Lakes. Plenty of room, relatively calm waters and massive enough not to really feel it much when hit by a boat wake.

Not so great for rough water though.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:26   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djtopper View Post
I'm thinking I should have added to the OP.

It seems that even 40' catamarans are quite close in size to what some might consider small condominiums. I stayed at a hotel in Japan once with a much smaller bathroom than any standard "owners suite" head. By more common standards, of course they don't have as much room as a (1000-2000 sq ft) home or condo.

But what strikes me as most interesting is that they are in fact quite close. I suspect that somewhere in between the 50' and 60' size they are in fact the same.

I've actually never been on a cat that large. So I'm wondering what some may have noticed regarding design and layout. IE., I see from diagrams that the head arrangement on the Lagoon 500 (4 cabin) is quite different and in many ways seems like a huge improvement. Similarly, I wonder how large those in the new Leopard 48 are. I love how the front deck seems to increase "livability."
You keep mentioning Lagoon 500, but have you seen the new 520? It's in a league of its own, imho, for liveability. It feels to have nore space than the 560. And there was a recent thread on another forum that it sails quite well too.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:28   #23
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

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You keep mentioning Lagoon 500, but have you seen the new 520? It's in a league of its own, imho, for liveability. It feels to have nore space than the 560. And there was a recent thread on another forum that it sails quite well too.
No doubt. I love the 52, the 560 and the 620. I also love the Sunreef 62. Can't wait to see the 52 next month in Annapolis.

I subscribe to a few multihull and sailing magazines. Two have had reviews of the 52 this summer which claim it sails quite well. "More traction" vs "more power" one writer described it. Yet I've also read that the aft mast position increases the tendency to plow the bow into the water.

Regardless, I do still have somewhat of a limited budget. The Lagoon 500 is just about at the outer limits of what I can afford to charter for a week. That's the main reason I refer to it so much. For me, it's at the top of my (realistic) list.

The only 52 I've seen available (in BVI I think) is more than double the weekly rate of a 500 and I have never even seen a 560, 620 or Sunreef available for bareboat charter. I'll wager they are way out of my price range ... for now.

But you are correct. I believe that even a 560 (4 cabin) would represent the notion I've been dreaming of in terms of space with nice berths and clever head designs. But they're sadly just a bit out of reach at the moment.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:18   #24
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No doubt. I love the 52, the 560 and the 620. I also love the Sunreef 62. Can't wait to see the 52 next month in Annapolis.

I subscribe to a few multihull and sailing magazines. Two have had reviews of the 52 this summer which claim it sails quite well. "More traction" vs "more power" one writer described it. Yet I've also read that the aft mast position increases the tendency to plow the bow into the water.

Regardless, I do still have somewhat of a limited budget. The Lagoon 500 is just about at the outer limits of what I can afford to charter for a week. That's the main reason I refer to it so much. For me, it's at the top of my (realistic) list.

The only 52 I've seen available (in BVI I think) is more than double the weekly rate of a 500 and I have never even seen a 560, 620 or Sunreef available for bareboat charter. I'll wager they are way out of my price range ... for now.

But you are correct. I believe that even a 560 (4 cabin) would represent the notion I've been dreaming of in terms of space with nice berths and clever head designs. But they're sadly just a bit out of reach at the moment.
We keep looking at Lagoons at every show just because it's interesting. And for both of us 520 wins hands down over 500, 560, and 620. Not that we'd ever buy it. But it's always nice to look Most likely charter companies will get their hands on 520s this or next year.
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Old 07-09-2013, 14:23   #25
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

Oh, Oh, Oohhh!

Wouldn't it be nice to have one of those 520s..............

I should unsubscribe.............

Can't though...........

Oh, Oh!................
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Old 07-09-2013, 15:39   #26
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

if i just had the dough for my friends ct 56--awesome boat.oh wait--it was a lil tooooo big...lol
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Old 07-09-2013, 22:36   #27
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

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The issue is more for friends and family who don't handle smaller spaces well. for them, even aboard a 44' cat, the berths and heads in particular can be a bit cramped. Yes, owners versions help somewhat, but not for people staying in the non-owner berths.

.
If the only issue you have with friends and family joining you is handling small spaces count yourself very lucky. I don't know how often you have people join you but for most the issues they have are beyond cramped berths and heads.

We routinely have 7 to 10 people aboard Palarran. It could be considered cramped and the heads small but I'll always prepare them for this. By far the bigger problem is having guests understand the difference between a vacation and an adventure. If they are joining me for a vacation, ie don't expect to have to engage in the working processes required to cruise, we have a problem. And if they then complain about the space they can get the f of the boat. Most understand they are on an adventure. It takes work and some sacrifice to make adventures work but it's worth it. In any case, I don't have many problems. My suggestion is to do a better job of explaining what to expect before you family and friends arrive.

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I think miles sailed and boat length are inversely proportional, but not always obviously.

.
I don't understand the last part "but not always obviously". And, I disagree with the premises that large boats are not sailed as much as small boats. There may be more small boats, and all the miles added up with small boats may be more than large boats, but vessel to vessel, large boats do more miles than small, imo. This year we put 1400 mile on Palarran in 7 weeks, last year it was 7,000 miles in 16 weeks. That in my opinion is moving.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:06   #28
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

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If the only issue you have with friends and family joining you is handling small spaces count yourself very lucky. I don't know how often you have people join you but for most the issues they have are beyond cramped berths and heads.

We routinely have 7 to 10 people aboard Palarran. It could be considered cramped and the heads small but I'll always prepare them for this. By far the bigger problem is having guests understand the difference between a vacation and an adventure. If they are joining me for a vacation, ie don't expect to have to engage in the working processes required to cruise, we have a problem. And if they then complain about the space they can get the f of the boat. Most understand they are on an adventure. It takes work and some sacrifice to make adventures work but it's worth it. In any case, I don't have many problems. My suggestion is to do a better job of explaining what to expect before you family and friends arrive.



I don't understand the last part "but not always obviously". And, I disagree with the premises that large boats are not sailed as much as small boats. There may be more small boats, and all the miles added up with small boats may be more than large boats, but vessel to vessel, large boats do more miles than small, imo. This year we put 1400 mile on Palarran in 7 weeks, last year it was 7,000 miles in 16 weeks. That in my opinion is moving.
I think he is refering to the typical boat, not the exception. We've noticed the same thing. The bigger the boat, the less it goes out.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:33   #29
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

Tell them to do the math. If a 1000 foot long cruise ship can have 100 ft^2 cabins, how big should they expect a cabin be on a 50 foot boat proportionally. Then let them be amazed by how much bigger it is than the calculated 5 ft^2.




Scroll down to best solo cabin for 100 ft^2 cabin:
http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1457
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:47   #30
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Re: When do they get "big enough?"

We had dinner aboard a Lagoon 52 last week, and a new 450, I would say for living areas, very similar in size. The 52 saloon area seems a little smaller, I guess the front windows are further aft than the 450. Bridgedeck very similar but with a big lounging area over the bimini on the 52...Both beautiful boats and owners very happy with them!
BTW, especially with Cats, extra length doesn't allways equal extra volume. i.e. our lagoon 380 probably has similar accommodation to an outreymer 48. The trade off is performance and cost.
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