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earthbm · 13-12-2010, 21:46

So I've read in a few places here and elsewhere about Catanas becoming slow over time as buyers demonstrated preference for "features" over performance. And also reportedly as the designers went to Outremer. When did this happen, approximately? Hard to tell from published displacement numbers.

slap · 13-12-2010, 23:24

I'm under the impression that after Lock Crowthers death, the designs became less performance oriented.

Jeannius · 14-12-2010, 09:05

When they were bought by Poncin. Not sure when that was but it was after 2002 which is when I seriously considered buying a Catana

earthbm · 14-12-2010, 19:08

Ok, picked a few from the listings... looks like early-mid 2000s were the fat (or honest displacement reporting) years.

Year LOA Displ
2004 53' 20,000kg
1994 53' 15,000
2004 52' 20,000
2007 52' 16,500

For comparison, 2004 55' Outremer "Light" is 8,000kg.... Ouch, can this be right?
2002 55' Outremer "Standard" is 12,000kg

Do displacement numbers need to be real (eg they would be liability for when the boat is hauled out)?

tsmwebb · 14-12-2010, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by earthbm

...Do displacement numbers need to be real (eg they would be liability for when the boat is hauled out)?

HA! HA! HA! HA! HO Ho ho... hee hee... ... ... hee... uhm...err...

Sadly, evidence would suggest not.

Tom

Bash · 14-12-2010, 22:16

Catana was founded in 1984. Gunboat was founded in 2001. I would guess that Catana became "slow" in 2001.

earthbm · 15-12-2010, 07:35

Well, this wasn't an entirely idle question. This is related to buying a real world ~50' Catana.

Gunboats are out of the price range, so they don't exist as far as I am concerned.

YOGAO · 15-12-2010, 07:58

If Gunboats don't exist for you, Catanas aren't slow

Seriously though, from what little I have seen they are pretty good performers that can carry a pretty significant payload. I would suspect they would equal or beat most other "production cats" in this range like, Lagoon, FP and Voyage. Maybe a Chris White Atlantic series will offer better performance.

Poozer · 15-12-2010, 13:39

I recently purchased my 2001 471 Catana because the new models are nowhere near as good. Cheap interiors, small portlights, too heavy, too mass production like and slow. My boat is 9 years old, but she is completely decked out out for circumnavigating, comfortable, proven and FAST! There are plenty of superb circa 2000 Catanas out there, no need to buy a slow one.

earthbm · 15-12-2010, 13:55

Thanks! Did you have a marine survey done? If so did you get "true displacement"?

Where does the extra weight come from? Genset/watermakers/washer/dryer/etc only add a ton max. The difference appears to be on the order of 5 tons for 50' cats. Of course all of it could be due to "truth in advertising".

Were there any significant design changes between early 90s and now, other than in electronics?

smj · 15-12-2010, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by earthbm

Thanks! Did you have a marine survey done? If so did you get "true displacement"?

Where does the extra weight come from? Genset/watermakers/washer/dryer/etc only add a ton max. The difference appears to be on the order of 5 tons for 50' cats. Of course all of it could be due to "truth in advertising".

Were there any significant design changes between early 90s and now, other than in electronics?

I'm pretty sure the early Catanas were still Lock Crowther design. Nowadays I don't think you will find much Crowther influence in them at all. Sure like the original mid to late 80's Catana's.

Poozer · 15-12-2010, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by earthbm

Thanks! Did you have a marine survey done? If so did you get "true displacement"?

This is my first cruising yacht, so I surveyed the heck out of her before the purchase, which was a pretty annoying experience, but that's another story. I had 4 different inspections done by so called specialists, that covered basic vessel integrity, rigging, electrical and electronics and plumbing systems and engines. During the process I had her out of the water twice. Once for the inspections and later to make repairs. I didn't weigh her on the haul out because At that time I wasn't concerned too much about the displacement numbers. The 471s are a fast comfortable boat and Zangezi is no exception, I was more interested in how she sailed than the weight measurement. I understand you are in a different situation, trying to figure out where Catana deviated from their lighter faster boats of the past. All I can tell you is that the 471s in the hull number range of 35 to 40 are fast. Sorry to not be much help. I'll definitely have her weighed on the next haul out.

Agility · 15-12-2010, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOGAO

If Gunboats don't exist for you, Catanas aren't slow

Seriously though, from what little I have seen they are pretty good performers that can carry a pretty significant payload. I would suspect they would equal or beat most other "production cats" in this range like, Lagoon, FP and Voyage. Maybe a Chris White Atlantic series will offer better performance.

I looked hard at Catana because I liked what I saw on the water circa 2000 but I assure you the the new Catana's and the Atlantic's or not even close performance wise.

caribcat · 16-12-2010, 04:40

Measuring weight is always a tough one and it's amazing how many gain a lot. Recently did some work on a P585 that we had to get an accurate measurement of the GT for classification. Turns out the Palma travel lift was almost 20% so we used 4 x load cells in the straps (used for measuring race boats) only to find out she was almost 33 tonnes. Last year did a calculation by displacement measurement (pretty accurate) on a BVI charter boat and she was over 31. Not bad for boat that I personally know launched in 2002 at 23t!