Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2013, 17:49   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

I have looked up numerous cats on NADA for a guide for prices on cats that I see for sale on various sites....I find there's a pretty wide margin of what NADA says it's worth and what the owner is asking for the cat..... sometimes half of what they are asking, even with the correct options checked off........why is this?....I know if I do have borrow money against the boat this is what the bank is going to use to guage my loan against....and isn't this what the insurance company will use to figure out a value on my boat if (god forbid) is total loss....if that's the case this is a like going to Vegas and handing them your $100's before you even place a bet.....seems like a losing bet to me.....can someone answer this question before I get soaked.....thanx....
__________________

__________________
cat-a-cism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 18:00   #2
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,222
Images: 2
pirate Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat-a-cism View Post
I have looked up numerous cats on NADA for a guide for prices on cats that I see for sale on various sites....I find there's a pretty wide margin of what NADA says it's worth and what the owner is asking for the cat..... sometimes half of what they are asking, even with the correct options checked off........why is this?....I know if I do have borrow money against the boat this is what the bank is going to use to guage my loan against....and isn't this what the insurance company will use to figure out a value on my boat if (god forbid) is total loss....if that's the case this is a like going to Vegas and handing them your $100's before you even place a bet.....seems like a losing bet to me.....can someone answer this question before I get soaked.....thanx....
Forget NADA... a boats only worth what you or the next guy is prepared to pay... agencies are geared to corprate co-operation not reality... and the lines need to keep producing...
Cats are still pretty few in comparison to mono's and with more folk leaning that way demand outstrips supply so the old boats appreciate...
In Europe 40yr old Cats are selling for the same prices as 15yrs ago.. Iroquois.. Catalac's.. Heavenly Twins etc..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 18:13   #3
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

The NADA prices are somewhat realistic for most boats sold, which in terms of numbers are production outboards. There are lots of them and they have an easy to understand depreciation and often a surveyor is not required.

There is not really a good method to come up with a price of what I will call a real sailboat sight unseen. Even a good surveyor can miss something that once found can significantly lower the price. While I bought my boat for cash I did talk to lenders and found some that suggested the amount they would lend would be based on a survey.

It should be noted that the NADA prices do not cover all boats and at times it almost looked like the prices for some of the boats was from thin air.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 18:57   #4
Registered User
 
TheOffice's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Annapolis
Boat: Hylas 44
Posts: 530
If you are dealing with a broker they can access a database of sold boats listed in Yachtworld. It is a subscription database.
__________________
TheOffice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 19:01   #5
Registered User
 
Tar34's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 291
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
The NADA prices are somewhat realistic for most boats sold, which in terms of numbers are production outboards. There are lots of them and they have an easy to understand depreciation and often a surveyor is not required.

There is not really a good method to come up with a price of what I will call a real sailboat sight unseen. Even a good surveyor can miss something that once found can significantly lower the price. While I bought my boat for cash I did talk to lenders and found some that suggested the amount they would lend would be based on a survey.

It should be noted that the NADA prices do not cover all boats and at times it almost looked like the prices for some of the boats was from thin air.
The only reliable valuation of a boat's worth is comparable boats recently sold.
You may approach a broker who has access to this information. You will purchase insurance based condition, equipment and survey. Purchase of insurance to cover your investment should be a condition of purchase. NADA is more often used to by States as property assessment for unpaid taxes.
Assessments usually do not reflect the actually property value.
__________________
Tar34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 19:12   #6
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

Quite a few discussions about NADA - seems that it is a bit of a catch 22, prices quoted often don't reflect the market value of boats but nonetheless lenders tend to use it, at least as a starting point.

But to be fair, volumes of boats sold simply not enough to generate reliable prices - plus add in that boat condition can vary wildly and is as much down to the PO(s) as to pure age and of course no robust reporting mechanism for the actual (or any!) prices of all boats sold.......so a lender has to start somewhere.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 06:30   #7
Registered User
 
Fishspearit's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 576
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

Like the others posted, NADA is fairly worthless for most sailboats. It works fine for cars. If you want the price of a 2007 Toyota Camry, they can calculate a fairly accurate average for the 500,000 or so Camry sold that year. It just doesn't work for a sailboat that might have 20 sisterships that year.

It's really easy to get a car from Florida up to New York, so location is not such a big factor for a car, but for a sailboat location can be a large factor.

Someone may spend 5% of the value of the boat just for electronics, cars don't see the same number of 'add ons' that a boat can get.

That cool flame paint job on a car won't affect the resale value much, but spray new awlgrip on a 15 year old boat and it has a big effect on price.

Your bank on the corner of Main Street in Boise, Idaho may not know any better than to lend on NADA or BUC value, but I believe most real Marine finance companies have access to and know to use soldboats.com for approximating value.
__________________
Fishspearit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 09:44   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
sandy daugherty's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: near Annapolis
Boat: PDQ 36 & Atlantic 42
Posts: 1,178
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

NADA is a fantasy. Imagine pricing houses by make and model. If your lender uses NADA or any other pricing guide, find another lender and close whatever accounts you have there. The only reliable value comes from a surveyor, or two, or three.
__________________
sandy daugherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 09:46   #9
Registered User
 
TheOffice's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Annapolis
Boat: Hylas 44
Posts: 530
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

You have to understand how NADA works. Dealers report their BEST sales to NADA. It is not a survey. Couple that with small sample sizes and it is obvious why it is unreliable.
__________________
TheOffice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 09:48   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

Quote:
The only reliable value comes from a surveyor, or two, or three.
Sandy, I agree that NADA is unrealistic, but I have found the same with surveyed values. At least on any boat survey I have ever seen the values were ridiculously high--like factors of 2 or 3 off in some cases.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 10:01   #11
Registered User
 
duefocena's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Newport Beach, CA.
Boat: TPI Lagoon Catamaran 42'
Posts: 234
Images: 1
Re: what's the deal with NADA Guide prices and what market prices are at....

There are two guides used here, BUC and NADA. Nada if you want to sell your boat and BUC if you're looking to buy. BUC hits it low and NADA hits it high.
How can someone evaluate , without surveying, the wear on the sails, engine electrics etc? Thousands of dollars difference without any accounting for it. We are taxed here by BUC and after 3 months of haggling got the Acessors office to concede that my boat wasn't the NADA value by half.
__________________

__________________
duefocena is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.