What would you choose: Lagoon 420 or Orana 44?

[perkie43]

Although not under consideration, a Manta 42 is very comfortable and all have the owner's layout.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by smj

Neither? For $300k there's a ton of good cats for sale.

I understand his requirement. It's based on a high preference for a certain layout and level of interior comfort and design. The FP's and Lagoons are basically clones of each other, at least in this regard.

I only brought up the Leopards because the new Leopards have joined this clone-club with their latest layouts.

I have the same requirement, myself. Though I might be open to slightly different layouts, it would only be at a very huge discount - one that I'm not likely to get. The end result is that Lagoons and FP's are really the only commonly available options - negating the various one-offs and low-production boats that have the same layout, but are in scarce supply.

[slosaileddie]

In my experience Lagoons are typically better and more solidly constructed than FPs, especially the interiors. I have been running a private 420 for several years now and have been constantly upgrading all systems.
I take care of all the technical aspects. In a previous life I did warranty work for Lagoon and technical work for some of the large charter companies.
Be aware that there are two different hull shapes and two different rigs for the 420.
Both items make a difference in the speed department. The owners version with three cabins is the most desirable one.. There are also different levels of equipment (number of lifelines aft, handholds on the stainless pillars, etc) depending on the version.
They will never be fast, but can be made to scoot along at a respectable pace with the right sails. To be comfortable, avoid all weight forward. They can also be made very green. I have every luxury aboard (2 fridge + 1 freezer, watermaker, washing machine,etc, but run the generator usually only once a week for a few hrs while I make water and do laundry)
Remember that Yanmars are always preferable to Volvos and generators used in charters are usually dead at 6000hrs, even if they still run. Onan generators in Lagoons are at the absolute limit of the suction capability of the salt water cooling pump and consequently need regular impeller replacement( every 100/200hrs) unless you want to dismantle the heat exchanger every time the impeller shreds and you have to look for the missing pieces that will block the heat exchanger. There is an easy permanent fix, but that is a thread of its own.
Have fun
Eddie

[lhsmith]

We started out looking at Lagoons and FPs and ended up buying a Leopard 43 for close to your max value. Suggest you get aboard one before you make a final decision. Of course, what you want to do with the boat has a lot to do with which boat you pick. In our case we will be full-time liveaboards for the next decade cruising the Med, crossing the Atlantic, and cruising the Carib/US east coast.
Good luck in your search.

[Henrique]

Why is that all those FP are having osmosis problem.
How much is it to fix.

Originally Posted by yeloya

Hi Jostalli,

I might not have been clear enough;

-3 Orana out of 3 sold in Turkey have had osmosis treatment. 4 Lavezzi out of 4 is the same. The same applies to Cumberlands. That's why I said to be carefull. Mine also has the same problem and I will only sell it after the proper treatment and 5 years guarantee. I tell this to every potential buyer.

-The level of service that a boat can get out of a charter in the Caribbean would not be the best. (My humble guess..)

All what I am saying that if you get an Orana at around K $ 300 , in good shape, you should go for it..

Cheers

Yeloya

[doc174]

I spoke with a Catamaran dealer regarding the osmosis issue and was told that FP had a bad batch of resin a few years back that they used on several different models and over several years. FP has been very reponsive in mitigating the issue. I was told the osmosis ueually occurs in the forward inside portion of both hulls. Don't know this from first hand experience.

[muskoka]

Yachting World, December 2011, has a good review of the Lagoon 400, Broadblue 435 and FP Lipari 41.

Not surprisingly, they find that heavy catamarans are a lot less fun to sail than light catamarans (but they have larger accommodation).

In any event, many of the recent offerings from the big yards have really bulked up the displacement while the sail plans seem to have reduced. No doubt the theory is that people are quite happy to fire up the diesels if the wind isn't optimal. Or maybe the charter market has decided that sailing is subordinate to space. I guess time will tell if a lack of emphasis on sailing performance is what the market really wants.

[RRMontgo]

Originally Posted by jostalli

ArtM, you can't find many used new design Leopards. I dislike the old design. Speaking of Leopard, when was the last time a Leopard owner chimed in on this board? You never hear from Leopard owners. It seems like nobody is buying these boats.

I agree the Lagoon 400 is massive for a 40'. I have looked at the 440 and the 450. The new interior 440 is nice but the charter version has tiny heads, which is odd for a 44'. Also, the 2008 or 2009 are priced just a little too high for me.

OK, I'm a Leopard owner and I'll chime in. Actually, they are selling quite well from the Moorings brokerage. In fact, they had 7 or 8 4600's come out of charter this year and all were snapped up. We bought one of them. In fact, we were looking at a Lagoon 420 through Horizon's brokerage but liked the Leopard 4600 much better. There should be a large number of them coming on the market in 2013 out of Moorings/Sunsail charters.

We have chartered the Leopard 40 before and were very impressed with it. Depending on your budget, you should check out a Leopard 40, 43 and 46. Personally, I wouldn't sail a Leopard 44 or 48 on a long passage. I don't trust the forward cockpits in high seas.

Good luck!

[jostalli]

Originally Posted by RRMontgo

OK, I'm a Leopard owner and I'll chime in. Actually, they are selling quite well from the Moorings brokerage. In fact, they had 7 or 8 4600's come out of charter this year and all were snapped up. We bought one of them. In fact, we were looking at a Lagoon 420 through Horizon's brokerage but liked the Leopard 4600 much better. There should be a large number of them coming on the market in 2013 out of Moorings/Sunsail charters.

We have chartered the Leopard 40 before and were very impressed with it. Depending on your budget, you should check out a Leopard 40, 43 and 46. Personally, I wouldn't sail a Leopard 44 or 48 on a long passage. I don't trust the forward cockpits in high seas.

Good luck!

I could buy two charter Lagoon 420's or Orana 44's for the price of a 4600. In my opinion the Leopard/Moorings boats I have seen are overpriced for charter boats. Lagoon 420 and Orana 44 is the best value catamaran right now.

[RRMontgo]

Originally Posted by jostalli

I could buy two charter Lagoon 420's or Orana 44's for the price of a 4600. In my opinion the Leopard/Moorings boats I have seen are overpriced for charter boats. Lagoon 420 and Orana 44 is the best value catamaran right now.

Not exactly correct. All of the ex-charter 4600s that Moorings sold in Tortola this year went in the mid to high 300K range. The Lagoon 420 we checked out at Horizon brokerage in February was asking $375K, not much different. We checked out the Orana and the new Helia at Annapolis boatshows. Didn't like either of them as much as the 4600. Personal preference. The 4600 is a lot more boat for not much more price.

As far as being overpriced, also can't agree with that one. Moorings brokerage has very good prices on ex-charter R&Cs and Lagoons. People think ex-charter boats are too risky, but if you have a good surveyor, you can get some very good values on solid boats. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

[Clipper4730]

Hi Jostalli

My wife and I are in exactly the same situation looking at the same boats, although leaning heavily towards the Lagoon 400/420. We really like the Orana but have not sailed one yet and the osmosis issues does give us pause. If a Leopard 46 or 390 came on the market for a good price we would certainly entertain the thought of putting in an offer.

It all comes down to livability for us. I'm guessing 80+% of our time will be at anchor or on a mooring, so sailing performance is not of great importance. The 420 converted hybrid models appeal to me for several reasons. Space for a large house bank of LiFePO4 batteries, a large generator to charge it, and lots of real estate(huge cockpit hardtop) for solar and wind generators. We also like the fact that even the charter versions with four cabins and four heads still have separate shower stalls as that is a deal breaker for us.

If any number of models came up at the right price we can compromise but the 420 fits our needs best. BTW there is a really nice L400 in Tenerife for I think 326k. If we were ready I would put in an offer tomorrow but we are still about three months from listing our house in Georgia.

Anyways good luck in your search
Will