What Women Want - Page 2

Starbuck · 31-05-2009, 14:31

Is there any information about what women sailors want in the OP? Here's what I think are being expressed as typically feminine preferences, that would appeal to a wide swath of women:

Light, airy, stable living space, laid out to feel more like an apartment than a small basement, complete with pleasant views out the windows. This layout is also conducive to entertaining/socializing. Women want something that can be "lived in" like a home.
Less process (disassembling dinghies/motors, passage time); more being in and enjoying the places others only see on the glossy pages of Condé Nast magazine.
Less testosterone-fueled bashing to weather, which for them is not all that enjoyable and doesn't fulfill a need to test themselves against the elements; more easy reaches and runs, so that the time spent on the water is actually enjoyable. Sailed this way, the cat can avoid many of its shortcomings and emphasize many of its advantages.
The security of knowledge that, sailed prudently, a capsize is virtually nil; but, if it were to happen, the boat isn't going to disappear, leaving her bobbing about in an inflatable pool toy in the middle of an ocean, with no chance to salvage food, equipment, medical supplies, or possibly enjoy better shelter and a bigger rescue target.

Sounds like a very feminine perspective to me. I'm not surprised to hear it. And that is not a put-down; it's a recognition that women are not men. I'm sure most of you have noticed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither a catamaran fan nor all out for women adventurers, per se, and I'm definitely not a supporter of modern feminism. I simply think I see her points. Not my particular cup of tea, but no reason to dismiss her just because her goals & satisfactions are derived differently on the water than are mine.

Bashing her preferences is the same thing as blaming her for being a woman, or at the very least, the same as saying she shouldn't be out there. Chew on that idea.

Fair Winds,
Jeff

Woods Designs · 31-05-2009, 15:21

The 4 points in the last post have confused me totally.

I've just realised that I am a woman

Richard Woods

Woods Designs

Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

Jolly Roger · 31-05-2009, 15:59

I really think this notion you can somehow live in an upside-down catamaran is a bit far fetched. OK, some people have done it for a while, but what are you supposed to do, fit a hatch in the bottom so you can get in and out? If you tip her over the seas are not likely to be conducive to messing about in a half submerged boat. I’d take my chance in a proper life raft.
I agree with Richard as well, Jeff’s list is not exclusive to women; what about the old nautical idiom, “Gentlemen never beat to windward.”

Woods Designs · 31-05-2009, 16:21

Several men lived on a capsized trimaran (Rose Noelle by memory) for over 100 days (again by memory). When they eventually reached shore no one believed their story as they all looked so fit.

(Can I say that not many people have lived that long on a sunk monohull? no I thought not)

All multihulls over 12m long have to have escape hatches fitted by law in the EU.

Had you said "a proper lifeboat" I might agree with you.

So what do you define as a "proper liferaft"??? See the other discussions on liferaft failures on this forum.

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

fareweather · 31-05-2009, 16:44

Quote:

Bashing her preferences is the same thing as blaming her for being a woman

Where was the bashing?

Quote:

Less testosterone-fueled bashing to weather

Oh yea, there it is.

Based on Capn Jeffs list I think I'm a woman too, my wife isn't going to like that.

senormechanico · 31-05-2009, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woods Designs

The 4 points in the last post have confused me totally.

I've just realised that I am a woman

Richard Woods

Woods Designs

Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

Me too. I recently went for a sail on an Ericson 32. When we unfurled the genoa, the boat heeled about ten degrees. I gasped!
When my tri heels that much, it's time for a reef.

Steve B.
Gone to "The Dark Side" (and loving it)

Agility · 01-06-2009, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I really think this notion you can somehow live in an upside-down catamaran is a bit far fetched. ... I’d take my chance in a proper life raft.

No disrespect intended, but I think that could be the last mistake you ever made. In the poll circumnavigation w/o liferaft about 1/3 of the respondents would sail an appropriate Cat around the world without even having a life raft.

Jolly Roger · 01-06-2009, 09:27

118 replies is hardly a reliable survey of some 21,000 members, and only 20 of them were lunatic enough to propose an ocean passage without a proper liferaft. I wonder how many of those couldn't afford one anyway? 67% still say "NO WAY!"

Atlantic42 · 01-06-2009, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

only 20 of them were lunatic enough to propose an ocean passage without a proper liferaft.

Make that 21. When I crossed the South Pacific on my ULD 40' mono there was a risk of sinking, thus I carried a life raft.

With my cats I'd stick with the boat except in the case of a extreme fire... then I'd just jump in my 11' dingy with my EPIRB and ditch bag. If I got so unlucky as to be in conditions with extreme seas and wind at the same moment that I had an extreme fire then would a dedicated life raft really matter anyway? Unlikely, as survival at that point is low dedicated life raft or not.

imagine2frolic · 01-06-2009, 13:11

OH GOODY....another multi mono thread. I like it when the gloves come off....woooohooooo....hahahahahahaha......i2f

Don Lucas · 01-06-2009, 14:34

"Me too. I recently went for a sail on an Ericson 32. When we unfurled the genoa, the boat heeled about ten degrees. I gasped!
When my tri heels that much, it's time for a reef."

10 degrees, hell on a mono that merans you finally have some wind and starting to some headway!

DtM · 01-06-2009, 21:30

I have the best of both worlds. Race a 60' mono and cruise/sit at anchor our 36' catamaran.

The movements of the two boats at sea or in flat water are so different. Each has its place.

Randy · 02-06-2009, 00:07

I agree with DtM. If you don't appreciate the values of the differences in either style I'd say you haven't been on enough boats nor seen enough ocean.

DtM · 02-06-2009, 00:45

Hey Randy,

How are things in San Diego?

When does it start to warm up there? My son is trying to do a University exchange to San Diego in the first half of next year.

daniel

Randy · 02-06-2009, 10:40

Daniel,
Most people consider San Diego to have the most moderate climate in the continental US. Winters still get in the 60's F along the coast, summers are occasionally 80's to 100 inland 20 miles. It is dry maybe 9" of rain/yr.

So probably a lot like Greece.

31-05-2009, 14:31	#16
Starbuck Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 579	It Doesn't Require Mind-reading Is there any information about what women sailors want in the OP? Here's what I think are being expressed as typically feminine preferences, that would appeal to a wide swath of women: Light, airy, stable living space, laid out to feel more like an apartment than a small basement, complete with pleasant views out the windows. This layout is also conducive to entertaining/socializing. Women want something that can be "lived in" like a home. Less process (disassembling dinghies/motors, passage time); more being in and enjoying the places others only see on the glossy pages of Condé Nast magazine. Less testosterone-fueled bashing to weather, which for them is not all that enjoyable and doesn't fulfill a need to test themselves against the elements; more easy reaches and runs, so that the time spent on the water is actually enjoyable. Sailed this way, the cat can avoid many of its shortcomings and emphasize many of its advantages. The security of knowledge that, sailed prudently, a capsize is virtually nil; but, if it were to happen, the boat isn't going to disappear, leaving her bobbing about in an inflatable pool toy in the middle of an ocean, with no chance to salvage food, equipment, medical supplies, or possibly enjoy better shelter and a bigger rescue target. Sounds like a very feminine perspective to me. I'm not surprised to hear it. And that is not a put-down; it's a recognition that women are not men. I'm sure most of you have noticed. Don't get me wrong, I'm neither a catamaran fan nor all out for women adventurers, per se, and I'm definitely not a supporter of modern feminism. I simply think I see her points. Not my particular cup of tea, but no reason to dismiss her just because her goals & satisfactions are derived differently on the water than are mine. Bashing her preferences is the same thing as blaming her for being a woman, or at the very least, the same as saying she shouldn't be out there. Chew on that idea. Fair Winds, Jeff __________________ Formerly CaptainJeff (from captain to 1st mate) s/y Eagle's Wings— Catalina 30 MkII

01-06-2009, 13:11	#25
imagine2frolic Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N.E. Florida Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE Posts: 3,155	OH GOODY....another multi mono thread. I like it when the gloves come off....woooohooooo....hahahahahahaha......i2f __________________ BORROWED! No single one of us is as smart as all of us! SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!

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31-05-2009, 15:21	#17
Woods Designs Commercial Vendor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK and BC, Canada when not sailing Boat: 25ft Merlin catamaran, 34ft Romany catamaran Posts: 115	The 4 points in the last post have confused me totally. I've just realised that I am a woman Richard Woods Woods Designs Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

31-05-2009, 15:59	#18
Jolly Roger Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 200	I really think this notion you can somehow live in an upside-down catamaran is a bit far fetched. OK, some people have done it for a while, but what are you supposed to do, fit a hatch in the bottom so you can get in and out? If you tip her over the seas are not likely to be conducive to messing about in a half submerged boat. I’d take my chance in a proper life raft. I agree with Richard as well, Jeff’s list is not exclusive to women; what about the old nautical idiom, “Gentlemen never beat to windward.”

31-05-2009, 16:21	#19
Woods Designs Commercial Vendor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK and BC, Canada when not sailing Boat: 25ft Merlin catamaran, 34ft Romany catamaran Posts: 115	Several men lived on a capsized trimaran (Rose Noelle by memory) for over 100 days (again by memory). When they eventually reached shore no one believed their story as they all looked so fit. (Can I say that not many people have lived that long on a sunk monohull? no I thought not) All multihulls over 12m long have to have escape hatches fitted by law in the EU. Had you said "a proper lifeboat" I might agree with you. So what do you define as a "proper liferaft"??? See the other discussions on liferaft failures on this forum. Richard Woods of Woods Designs Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans

01-06-2009, 09:27	#23
Jolly Roger Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 200	118 replies is hardly a reliable survey of some 21,000 members, and only 20 of them were lunatic enough to propose an ocean passage without a proper liferaft. I wonder how many of those couldn't afford one anyway? 67% still say "NO WAY!"

01-06-2009, 14:34	#26
Don Lucas Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Salem MA Boat: Cal 39 - D & D Posts: 485	"Me too. I recently went for a sail on an Ericson 32. When we unfurled the genoa, the boat heeled about ten degrees. I gasped! When my tri heels that much, it's time for a reef." 10 degrees, hell on a mono that merans you finally have some wind and starting to some headway!

01-06-2009, 21:30	#27
DtM Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney Australia Boat: FP Mahe36 "2gether" Posts: 251	I have the best of both worlds. Race a 60' mono and cruise/sit at anchor our 36' catamaran. The movements of the two boats at sea or in flat water are so different. Each has its place.

02-06-2009, 00:07	#28
Randy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Diego Boat: Searunner 31 Posts: 300	I agree with DtM. If you don't appreciate the values of the differences in either style I'd say you haven't been on enough boats nor seen enough ocean.

02-06-2009, 00:45	#29
DtM Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney Australia Boat: FP Mahe36 "2gether" Posts: 251	Hey Randy, How are things in San Diego? When does it start to warm up there? My son is trying to do a University exchange to San Diego in the first half of next year. daniel

02-06-2009, 10:40	#30
Randy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Diego Boat: Searunner 31 Posts: 300	Daniel, Most people consider San Diego to have the most moderate climate in the continental US. Winters still get in the 60's F along the coast, summers are occasionally 80's to 100 inland 20 miles. It is dry maybe 9" of rain/yr. So probably a lot like Greece.