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Old 12-08-2008, 15:27   #31
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Single line reefing, with all lines led back to dual elelctric winches is no hassle. It leaves you the option of having a nice fully battened main with a medium roach, good battcars etc. No need to have the boom adjusted to an exact position to reef like in-boom furling requires.

I always have my topping lift made of spectra/dyneema so it can function as a back-up halyard.

All mainsail furling systems are an extra complication that can lead to problems that can be tough to fix in bad conditions.

Cheers

Alan
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Old 12-08-2008, 15:38   #32
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Definitely pass on the spinnaker until you've sailed the boat a while. 2 people on a 50 footer will likely never want one after getting caught out in 30knots with your lapper up. On the other hand if your pastimes are rock climbing, Kite Sailboarding etc. I am wrong.
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Old 12-08-2008, 16:03   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gludy View Post
Prodder?
Do you mean a pole?
You could call it a bowsprit. Friends have one which can swing from side to side, with tackles to hold it. By moving the tack to windward or leeward it lets one sail, say a reacher, or an assymetrical spinnaker, work in a much wider range of wind angles.
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Old 12-08-2008, 16:09   #34
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Ok more questions
Using a bowsprit with a furling say Code Zero (Why the name?)

How long would it take to change the furled sail over to say a Screacher?
If you are using a luff rope furler it only takes a few minutes. If you're using an aluminium foil furler you'd probably hardly ever do it, because you'd have to unfurl the sail to remove it it from the furler.
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Old 13-08-2008, 10:52   #35
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How much performance do you lose with the in boom reefing?

Is the sail shape effected?
For a cruiser performance is most likely improved. If you make sail adjustment easier you are more likely to do it when needed thereby improving safety and performance.

Next point. As a cruiser I doubt you will find a self tacking jib very useful. Cruisers tend to tack as little as possible. A jib rig with more sail adjustment options will probably be more useful.
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Old 13-08-2008, 11:33   #36
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I don't think anything but a full on spectra sail is going to work for your main. The leech load will be too high for dacron to survive, not to mention dacron will weigh a ton. Our main is all spectra and about the same size as yours, leech loads are very high, we trim it with a 3 to 1 mainsheet on a three speed Harken 98. Also check that the geometry of the rig will allow in boom furling, not sure how much rake is allowed with the system.

For the jib you can get by with a bit less but still the leech is going to be highly loaded. We use dacron but it is two ply 10 once, heavy stuff. The crew calls the racing laminates Casious Clay, cause they kick your ass.

You bought a big boat with big heavy stuff and very high loads, gotta have the right sails and gear or you will be re-buying stuff again.

A final note: Mind the triangle of death, stay out of it.
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Old 13-08-2008, 11:40   #37
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What is the triangle of death then?
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Old 13-08-2008, 11:49   #38
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The triangle of death is where the jib sheet (or other heavily loaded sheets) make a turn. If you have ever seen a highly loaded block explode you know why it's called "the triangle of death".

As an example using our boat, from the turning block to the winch with the #3 up we see sheet loads approaching 16,000 pounds. If the block breaks and you are straddling the sheet, you will be seriously injured. I've seen blocks explode, pull from the deck, and all matter of bad things. I have heard but have never seen a winch shear from the deck under load.

Big boats, big loads, use caution and be mindful of where you stand.
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Old 13-08-2008, 12:29   #39
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Oversize deck gear

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The triangle of death is where the jib sheet (or other heavily loaded sheets) make a turn. If you have ever seen a highly loaded block explode you know why it's called "the triangle of death".

As an example using our boat, from the turning block to the winch with the #3 up we see sheet loads approaching 16,000 pounds. If the block breaks and you are straddling the sheet, you will be seriously injured. I've seen blocks explode, pull from the deck, and all matter of bad things. I have heard but have never seen a winch shear from the deck under load.

Big boats, big loads, use caution and be mindful of where you stand.
Joli
What I assume you are saying then, it is better to oversize on deck gear and also reinforce backing plates, would this help save possible unfortunate eventualities.
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Old 13-08-2008, 13:02   #40
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If you have a turning block that turns the sheet through nearly 180 degrees, the stress on the turning block is very nearly double that experienced by the winch.

Do not underestimate these loads.

Some people hang the series drogues from the main winches - this is a big mistake. The loads from a series drogue make the normal winch loads look light. They need to be taken by specially designed sampson posts bedded onto reinforced areas that allow the load to be spread. There have been cases where this load has ripped the winch out of the deck, soyou no longer have the drogue, and you also no longer have the ability to sail - your day has really gone bad!!
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Old 13-08-2008, 13:50   #41
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What is the triangle of death then?
Bermuda Trangle !!!
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Old 13-08-2008, 15:13   #42
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loads ? what loads ?

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What is the triangle of death then?


I detect from your line of questioning that sailing holds a few grey areas in your knowledge bank.

As your boat will see quite high sheet loads and hence the potential to hurt or even kill the inexperienced ,it may be a good idea to hitch a few rides over the next 12 months on similar sized boats, before you take delivery of you sails.
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Old 13-08-2008, 15:21   #43
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There are many gaping holes in my knowledge - not little one!!!

I am a novice.

I am doing much more than hitch a few rides - we are going in for fairly intensive training with 1 to 1 instruction on sailing cats.. I take my sailing safety seriously and would not dream of just going off sailing. I would like to be at least a qualified skipper to coastal skipper RYA standard before my boat is delivered.

So what is the triangle of death? I can guess but I do not know.
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Old 13-08-2008, 15:29   #44
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Triangle of death?

Gludy, sounds like you've got all bases covered.

The triangle of death refers to the imaginary triangle formed by the sheet where it passes through a turning block. ie for the headsail sheet, where it passes through the car on the head-sail tracks, the apex of the triangle is formed at this point. If this car explodes off the track, causing the sheet to straighten, one would loose the family jewels if standing over this particularly highly loaded point.

best regards.
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Old 28-08-2008, 11:03   #45
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Yow!

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Gludy, sounds like you've got all bases covered.

The triangle of death refers to the imaginary triangle formed by the sheet where it passes through a turning block. ie for the headsail sheet, where it passes through the car on the head-sail tracks, the apex of the triangle is formed at this point. If this car explodes off the track, causing the sheet to straighten, one would loose the family jewels if standing over this particularly highly loaded point.

best regards.
Yow! This makes balanced rigs like junk rigs, wing sails, Aerorig (Easyrig) (Balestron rig,) look good. Such rigs don't have high, concentrated sheet loads. Rupert Murdoch's son lost a finger to a sheet by getting it caught between the sheet and a sheet winch on a big racing boat. A balanced rig is what makes it possible for me to build a boat with 2-1200 sq. foot sails with no qualms. I won't even install sheet winches, between the 7 to 1 purchase and the sail overlap that reduces sheet loads.
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