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Old 25-09-2013, 22:04   #76
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

Bob
The cockpit seats 6 with room for 6 more on deck when anchor shades are up. Just trying to give some help to sailors that started this thread.
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Old 26-09-2013, 00:14   #77
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

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Originally Posted by jkerrigan7373 View Post
Hey Bob
We too love outdoors, when we are at anchor the
breeze is usually on the nose. This blows through
the covered cockpit then through the sallon/
pilot house and on out the 6 pilot house hatches.
It is really quite comfortable.
We'll certainly agree with that! Of course our forward cockpit is not covered, but we like it that way, heading for the aft cockpit if shade or shelter is needed.

We like the flybridge area on ours too, for many reasons, but certainly including the extra living area it provides. Seven people can be seated up there easily (8 in a squeeze! ) although ours is only the 'standard' bimini so only 2-3 people can be shaded. Some we know though -- Hello Peter/dirkdig?!? -- have installed great additional bimini coverage over their flybridges...and they too love the living area up there!

Every vessel is a compromise...and the important thing is to find what suits you!
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Old 26-09-2013, 21:15   #78
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

Hello Therapy
The key word here is "inside"
Regards, Jim
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Old 27-09-2013, 18:16   #79
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

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Hello Therapy
The key word here is "inside"
Regards, Jim
Right. Inside when things are not as nice out and it is harder to see anyway.

Just no big deal huh?

I had a Gemini and all say the view from the helm is bad. I never thought it was all that bad. Sure was harder to see stuff when it was rainy/stormy outside though.
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Old 27-09-2013, 20:19   #80
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

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Right. Inside when things are not as nice out and it is harder to see anyway.

Just no big deal huh?

I had a Gemini and all say the view from the helm is bad. I never thought it was all that bad. Sure was harder to see stuff when it was rainy/stormy outside though.
One of the reasons we liked the L440 was that it had, in our view, the best view, inside and at the helm, of all the 30 or so cats we sailed when we were going through our 4 year boat-buying phase. We are yet to see one with better all round vision. Just sayin...
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Old 27-09-2013, 21:36   #81
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

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One of the reasons we liked the L440 was that it had, in our view, the best view, inside and at the helm, of all the 30 or so cats we sailed when we were going through our 4 year boat-buying phase. We are yet to see one with better all round vision. Just sayin...
Its been awhile since i have been aboard a L440, do you have an inside helm as well as the one up top on the flybridge ?

Bob
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Old 27-09-2013, 22:07   #82
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

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Its been awhile since i have been aboard a L440, do you have an inside helm as well as the one up top on the flybridge ?

Bob
No. Some L440's (not ours) have inside engine controls, but no helm.

We hav a remote for the autopilot that allows basic navigation from the inside, but if we're close to any hard bits we're up top, where the all-round visibility is superb.

When inside and underway on autopilot, the visibility there is excellent too...as it is from the rear cockpit as well. The large vertical windows all around permit clear vision in any direction from anywhere on the vessel. There are also overhead hatches in the saloon that allow good vision of the sails from inside although, again, all sail trimming requires being up top.

Please understand, we are not blind advocates for Lagoon and we accept that there are compromises in every vessel. Visibility, however, is definitely one of the L440's great strengths.
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Old 27-09-2013, 22:41   #83
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

Congratulations you've chosen a nice boat there are a few over this way Greece/Turkey and we've shared anchorages with them.

We are currently in Turkey so please keep an eye out for us next summer, Turkey is fabulous the people are extremely helpful and friendly, the marine shops here carry all sorts of equipment and leaves Croatia and Greece for dead in that way.

Another Aussie Cat is cruising with us so look out for 'DOMINOS' and 'Finally My Darling' Cheers.....
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Old 28-09-2013, 05:55   #84
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We'll certainly agree with that! Of course our forward cockpit is not covered, but we like it that way, heading for the aft cockpit if shade or shelter is needed. We like the flybridge area on ours too, for many reasons, but certainly including the extra living area it provides. Seven people can be seated up there easily (8 in a squeeze! ) although ours is only the 'standard' bimini so only 2-3 people can be shaded. Some we know though -- Hello Peter/dirkdig?!? -- have installed great additional bimini coverage over their flybridges...and they too love the living area up there! Every vessel is a compromise...and the important thing is to find what suits you!
Hello Don,

We love the flybridge.
Just about to get new clears made for it.
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Old 28-09-2013, 16:01   #85
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

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Hello Don,

We love the flybridge.
Just about to get new clears made for it.
Hello Peter (& Sherene!)

New clears sounds good. We thought about you and your plans for Pathfinder frequently in the past few days. We're sitting on The Broadwater at Southport, doing some shopping () and awaiting a weather window for the dash back to Yamba, the last leg of our Winter 2013 Exhibition Cruise. The spring sunshine here is intense. Our SunPower panels kick in very early. There's net positive charge (after allowing for both frig's and the freezer, all of which are working hard in the heat!) from before 8AM...and our batteries are fully charged before noon. Even in the one overcast day we only ran the genset for an hour or so...and we probably could've skipped that it we didn't listen to so much music or watch so much TV in the evenings!

We'll embark here early Tuesday and should be back in Yamba -- It's ~100NM -- before dark. Then CatNirvana will sit for a while with only some short hops (Coffs, Solitary Islands) planned until we embark north again for the Winter 2014 Exhibition Cruise, probably next May.

We hope you're both in good health and spirits...and we might share some beautiful anchorage with you in the not too distant future?!?
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:29   #86
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Re: What is your happy medium cat by comparison for a couple?

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We agree with that...

The L440 is definitely not built as a racing vessel, but we test sailed a LOT of other cats and the L440 was amoung the better performers.

Sea state is a major factor, as it was on every cat we sailed, with a lot of wetted area and not a lot of punching power through waves.

Point of sail varies a lot too. The Seawind 1250 and a Grainger and a Schionning were the best into the wind of those we tested. The L440 was amoung the best downwind...and, let's be honest here, who doesn't select downwind with any selection opportunity? As a dear friend with hundreds of thousands of sea miles likes to say "Nothing goes to windward like a 747!" Racers tend to focus on windward performance, but quick downwind is important too as, given any choice, that's where we'll be!

In any event and as a cruiser, our L440's ~7kn passage-making average is very respectable indeed.
I do not know which boats were tested but this is Amazing! The lagoon which weighs 12.2 ton and has 80m2 of sail is amongst the best down wind when compared to the least performance oriented Schionning of similar size I could find, the Wilderness 1340X. It weighs almost one third of the lagoon at 4.3 tons and has 30% more sail area at 116m2. That gives it over 4 times the power to weight ratio of the lagoon, but the downwind performance is similar. The designers at Lagoon must really know their stuff to have been able to overcome this apparently insurmountable performance disadvantage.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:53   #87
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

Downwind speed performance is pretty meaningless since you can only go as fast as the wind unless you have a very high performance boat that swings the apparent forward. Sail area differences above a certain amount make no additional impact.

In other words, once the apparent wind falls to a certain level downwind, all boats pretty much perform the same (ie, they are going the same speed).

In light air, there will be a difference between boats due to hull shape and weight drag differences.

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Old 04-10-2013, 08:24   #88
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

So what boat have you been on that can sail as fast as the wind directly downwind? That would mean the apparent wind is zero. Clearly this will not happen. The closer you can get to wind speed downwind is directly related to the sail area and weight.

You do not need that high of a performance boat to swing the wind forward when the wind is light on say a broad reach. Even my hunter can bring the wind well forward of the beam it with the cruising code zero when on a broad reach in light winds conditions. A boat with a power to weight ratio as impressive as the 1320X would take this to a new level.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:53   #89
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

Reread my post.

The only place I could have been clearer is by noting that projected sail area down wind is a deciding factor. That is often difficult to increase much above a certain point (the upper limit usually being a spinnaker with no other sail up).

A reach is not directly downwind.

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Old 05-10-2013, 17:39   #90
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Re: What is Your Happy Medium Cat by Comparison for a Couple?

Maybe when you compare barge like boats with the ability to fly unlimited size spinnakers. Anything remotely performance oriented will not be sailing directly downwind and will have the wind forward of the beam just by going away from the the wind by 35deg or so in light winds. Even the barge like cats I have seen cruising will not sail DDW, however I doubt they can bring the wind forward.
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