What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising ?

[David_Old_Jersey]

I remember them as a kid, they always had floats on top of the masts..........still a couple over here.

http://www.iroquoiscats.com/boatlist.cfm

The Notes column (against each boat) makes interesting reading - 1 circumnavigation, a lot more capsizes in home waters.

[SearenitySail]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I remember them as a kid, they always had floats on top of the masts..........still a couple over here.

http://www.iroquoiscats.com/boatlist.cfm

The Notes column (against each boat) makes interesting reading - 1 circumnavigation, a lot more capsizes in home waters.

David,
Thanks for posting that--I had no idea that many were built!

The Notes column DID make for interesting reading!

Marshall

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

I found this as well.

Iroquois/Sailcraft Owners Resource Page

These are the boats that gave catamarans the stigma they carry to this day, as they did capsize regularly. They were regarded as "sports cars" rather than "caravans" and were best sailed with the mainsheet in your hand like a big Hobie cat. They might be a lot of fun as a day sailor but not so much as a cruiser unless you can load it down with enough gear to prevent the windward hull from lifting.

Also...from this page "....It is recommended not to run before the wind over a force 3 - 4, the reason being to prevent the sail battens from breaking on the main shrouds....."

Ummm ....guys.... force 3 is just 7 to 10 knots, making these boats too tender, even on a dead run, to do any kind of sailing with them.

They actually cruised quite a bit with quite a few crossing the Atlantic and going through the canal. The earlier models known as the Mark1's were the ones known for capsizing. The later models, the Mark ii and MarkIIa were redesigned with more stability. Great designs, well ahead of their times and good performing boats but maybe better of sailed by experienced multihull skippers.

[Aussie_Sequoia]

I back-read this thread up until page six and then gave up and jumped to the end... so sorry if someone has mentioned it... but after ample research, we ended up getting a Prout 34 for 2 adults and a young son cruising back to Australia from Mexico.

In my (informed) opinon, UK built Prouts (not their newer South African incarnations) are the only true blue-water purpose-built, small cruising catamaran. I'm sure there will be some hackles up with that statement, but having just cruised on one for the last 8 months and having been on many other cats during that time - there really is no comparison in beefy durability. The design, build and layup are all completely different to newer (mostly French) cats.

I've got classic wineglass hulls with full keels (no real weight obviously, but the shape is structurally superior), a cut-away and skeg-hung rudders... I've got 1/2 inch of fiberglass down there... no coring. The solid (and I mean solid!) fore and aft deck and use of the central nacelle make this thing completely stiff in the so-called wings. I had Cecil Lang (boat building legend from the Pacific North West with over 350 boats under his belt) survey the thing before we bought her (she was already 22 years old and has sailed half way around the world already) and not only did he find not a single flex crack under the wings (or any other structural weakness whatsoever, he said that it was the first and only cat he would consider going sailing across and ocean in.

Don't get me wrong - they're not for everyone... there is extremely low clearance over the water which makes for some wave slam and a low coach roof (which fortunately makes for less windage) and they're SLOW... much more like an old Tiwanese heavy cruiser from the 70's than a fast new cat... but they are SAFE.

The 2.1 length width ratio looks weird... but seems to work great with the (extremely) aft mast acting as a 'pulling' rig rather than a pushing rig.

Of course everyone has heard the "A Prout has never capsized." (and yes I'm aware of the single indecent involving an extended mast, far too large a sail area and a gutted boat inside to get speed during a race).

Anyway... my two cents. I love mine and they're quite good value if you can find them. I'm sue other will disagree with my statements... but the OP hit home as we were trying to answer the same question last year - and found our answer

[downunder]

I would expect a Seawind 1000XL would be fine. Struck me as a very seaworthy vessel for its size.

If so maybe even a 950 Seawind.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by SearenitySail

I don't know how many Iroquois owners are on the forum, but rather than only relying on input from any brand catamaran owners, why don't you simply contact the Iroquois Owners Association and ask them first-hand?

Iroquois Owners Association

Marshall

Thanks for all your links and views, I was interested in a 30' Iroquois as a long term live aboard but as the Iroquois has no shower and in the saloon, only height/room for sitting, the 30' Iroquois is not the boat for this older bod. I quess it's still a well built FC boat, powerboat or sailboat, for me. Thanks again for your pointers.

Bill
Australia

[girouxkj]

My Seawind 1000 is only 33' but was built in Australia with rugged standing rigging for tough Australian conditions complete with double diamond stays on a stout mast. The adventures of an engineer and his wife sailing all over the Pacific are well documented at www.katiekat.net/ I sailed her from NC to FL and encountered gale force North winds in the north flowing Gulf Stream and she handled magnificently (although the autohelm wore out). I have not found the right guy to sail the high seas with and have just dropped her price from $148,000 to $119,000.

Karen

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by girouxkj

My Seawind 1000 is only 33' but was built in Australia with rugged standing rigging for tough Australian conditions complete with double diamond stays on a stout mast. The adventures of an engineer and his wife sailing all over the Pacific are well documented at www.katiekat.net/ I sailed her from NC to FL and encountered gale force North winds in the north flowing Gulf Stream and she handled magnificently (although the autohelm wore out). I have not found the right guy to sail the high seas with and have just dropped her price from $148,000 to $119,000.

Karen

Are you part of SSSM? If not, contact Zeehag

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by BillAU

Thanks for all your links and views, I was interested in a 30' Iroquois as a long term live aboard but as the Iroquois has no shower and in the saloon, only height/room for sitting, the 30' Iroquois is not the boat for this older bod. I quess it's still a well built FC boat, powerboat or sailboat, for me. Thanks again for your pointers.Bill
Australia

Sorry I am a bit late getting on this thread. The original iroquois was designed by a dinghy racer, and is a very fast (for its day) performer. However, it achieved this at considerable risk to stability, and was the class primarily responsible for all the "Catamarans capsize" stories. They and later versions are fast coastal craft designed for performance not comfort.

Fun they can be - liveaboards they are not!

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Sequoia

....In my (informed) opinon, UK built Prouts (not their newer South African incarnations) are the only true blue-water purpose-built, small cruising catamaran. I'm sure there will be some hackles up with that statement, but having just cruised on one for the last 8 months and having been on many other cats during that time - there really is no comparison in beefy durability. The design, build and layup are all completely different to newer (mostly French) cats........

In their day, you are partially correct, the Prout boats were the most prolific and popular long distance cruising boats - but they built boats up to 50ft, so what do you class as a small cruising cat. These days it has to be anything less than 40ft.

At the same time period as the early prouts, the Oceanic was also avaialble, and was just as competent a blue water sailer.




As for modern smaller cats - the Privilege 37 should certainly be a contender. Although sadly no longer available.

[Aussie_Sequoia]

I am always happy to hear about other great boats

I guess I was talking about the time period where Prout was just making the SnowGoose 37 and the Quest 31 - which turned into the Event 34 when they added swim steps at the back and a few other improvements.

I was unaware that they were making 50 foot cats back in the 80's and 90's.

[limejucer]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Sequoia

I back-read this thread up until page six and then gave up and jumped to the end... so sorry if someone has mentioned it... but after ample research, we ended up getting a Prout 34 for 2 adults and a young son cruising back to Australia from Mexico.

In my (informed) opinon, UK built Prouts (not their newer South African incarnations) are the only true blue-water purpose-built, small cruising catamaran. I'm sure there will be some hackles up with that statement, but having just cruised on one for the last 8 months and having been on many other cats during that time - there really is no comparison in beefy durability. The design, build and layup are all completely different to newer (mostly French) cats.

I've got classic wineglass hulls with full keels (no real weight obviously, but the shape is structurally superior), a cut-away and skeg-hung rudders... I've got 1/2 inch of fiberglass down there... no coring. The solid (and I mean solid!) fore and aft deck and use of the central nacelle make this thing completely stiff in the so-called wings. I had Cecil Lang (boat building legend from the Pacific North West with over 350 boats under his belt) survey the thing before we bought her (she was already 22 years old and has sailed half way around the world already) and not only did he find not a single flex crack under the wings (or any other structural weakness whatsoever, he said that it was the first and only cat he would consider going sailing across and ocean in.

Don't get me wrong - they're not for everyone... there is extremely low clearance over the water which makes for some wave slam and a low coach roof (which fortunately makes for less windage) and they're SLOW... much more like an old Tiwanese heavy cruiser from the 70's than a fast new cat... but they are SAFE.

The 2.1 length width ratio looks weird... but seems to work great with the (extremely) aft mast acting as a 'pulling' rig rather than a pushing rig.

Of course everyone has heard the "A Prout has never capsized." (and yes I'm aware of the single indecent involving an extended mast, far too large a sail area and a gutted boat inside to get speed during a race).

Anyway... my two cents. I love mine and they're quite good value if you can find them. I'm sue other will disagree with my statements... but the OP hit home as we were trying to answer the same question last year - and found our answer

Sorry to add to the list but there has been a second prout capsize, a snowgoose at anchor? I think it was nearer a tornado that hit that one.
But i aggree they are built like tanks. thats why we bought one too

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Sequoia

I am always happy to hear about other great boats

I guess I was talking about the time period where Prout was just making the SnowGoose 37 and the Quest 31 - which turned into the Event 34 when they added swim steps at the back and a few other improvements.

I was unaware that they were making 50 foot cats back in the 80's and 90's.

Prout Quasar dates back to very early 80s if not earlier. A quick search reveals models for sail from 84 - 89.

The Event owes little in its design to the snowgoose 35 or the 37 or even to the Quest 31 or 33 by comparison to the influence from the Snowgoose Elite. The changes to the standard Snowgoose 37 to make it into the elite, had also added significant cost, Thus the evolution of the Event 34. The design concept of the Snowgoose Elite to provide reasonable width and height to the bunks in the rear cabins in the Snowgoose elite had added a nasty bump out on the inner hull, which added significant drag when immersed in cruising trim. This design flaw was copied across to the Event.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by girouxkj

My Seawind 1000 is only 33' but was built in Australia with rugged standing rigging for tough Australian conditions complete with double diamond stays on a stout mast. The adventures of an engineer and his wife sailing all over the Pacific are well documented at www.katiekat.net/ I sailed her from NC to FL and encountered gale force North winds in the north flowing Gulf Stream and she handled magnificently (although the autohelm wore out). I have not found the right guy to sail the high seas with and have just dropped her price from $148,000 to $119,000.

Karen

G'day Karen,

I believe your link should point to this site I fixed it for you
If your Cat were over here, I would not mind having a look at her but as it's in the States, I'll give it a miss.


When I first started looking for a boat to live aboard, I wanted a 40' Tri. I planned to live on the boat and cruise the Australian coast, with perhaps the occasional trip further North to Asia. Later I thought I should buy a boat in the States, sail it to Malaysia and keeping it there but, due to matters I will not reveal here, I'm still here in AU and have come to realise my plan for living on a boat in Asia would need to be revised. I would not mind living on a boat in New Zealand and flying back to AU when I had to. Or I could buy a local boat and cruise the AU coast or take the boat to NZ where there is also great sailing, fishing and hunting...Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Most likely I'll end-up with something like one of the following boats, they all have good headroom, shower and plenty of space for one man and his dog + a mate or two who want to go fishing from time to time.

These boats are NZ built and based FC Power Cruiser...Apart from one sailer, and look to be good value for the asking price.

I don't know why but this home finished Hartley NZ boat really appeals to me, it's no oil painting but I like it and I believe it would suite me down to the deck.


This is another NZ Pro built and based Hartley FC Power Cruiser that I like


This is a Cadillac 40, a Custom/Hartley AU built and based FC Power Cruiser that I like


I also like this Willacott Cruiser, a NZ FC built and based.


I don't believe running/maintaining any of the above boats would break the bank and any one of them would suit my needs. i.e. cruising/fishing/hunting the AU or NZ coast.
Whichever boat I end-up with, it will be with me for life...So resale does not enter into it.


Bill
Australia

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Talbot

In their day, you are partially correct, the Prout boats were the most prolific and popular long distance cruising boats - but they built boats up to 50ft, so what do you class as a small cruising cat. These days it has to be anything less than 40ft.

At the same time period as the early prouts, the Oceanic was also avaialble, and was just as competent a blue water sailer.




As for modern smaller cats - the Privilege 37 should certainly be a contender. Although sadly no longer available.

The bridge deck clearance doesnt look that great from here,
How much clearance does it have,