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Old 12-05-2012, 10:55   #76
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

A few points to make:

Sorry about the fuchsia. It will never happen again. LOL!
I think the OP is really interested in a comfortable small multi. For me that would be a Gemini although for real ocean cruising I would prefer something bigger with a little bit more bridgedeck clearance. Maybe a Seawind 1000XL or a L380. Or many others in this range.
The entire speed debate is without merit. People seem to nitpick everything quoted or posted here but the simple fact is a faster seaworthy boat is safer than a slower seaworthy boat. On another active thread they are discussing a slow mono that will probably only average 110 miles a day. I think all modern multis can beat that by a significant margin. Now, if you were near the really bad weather which boat would you rather be in.
Both Phil Berman and Gregor Tarjan have extensive multi history of about 30 years each. Berman won the Hobie worlds in the early 80s. Gregor Tarjan participated in the Americas cup and has owned numerous racing cats. Both have written numerous magazine articles and books and sailed on about every boat in every sea in every condition. These guys are experts. At least they are experts to me.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:22   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab
A few points to make:

Sorry about the fuchsia. It will never happen again. LOL!
I think the OP is really interested in a comfortable small multi. For me that would be a Gemini although for real ocean cruising I would prefer something bigger with a little bit more bridgedeck clearance. Maybe a Seawind 1000XL or a L380. Or many others in this range.
The entire speed debate is without merit. People seem to nitpick everything quoted or posted here but the simple fact is a faster seaworthy boat is safer than a slower seaworthy boat. On another active thread they are discussing a slow mono that will probably only average 110 miles a day. I think all modern multis can beat that by a significant margin. Now, if you were near the really bad weather which boat would you rather be in.
Both Phil Berman and Gregor Tarjan have extensive multi history of about 30 years each. Berman won the Hobie worlds in the early 80s. Gregor Tarjan participated in the Americas cup and has owned numerous racing cats. Both have written numerous magazine articles and books and sailed on about every boat in every sea in every condition. These guys are experts. At least they are experts to me.
They are experts, experts in selling catamarans! I agree they have a lot of cat experiance but to make statements that cats will average 11 kts. Is ridiculous. Very very few would average that day in day out. Did I say very very few? I should have said hardly any.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:34   #78
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

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This and Phil Bermans statement of running before a storm at 10-15 kts sounds all rosey but how many cats can average 11 kts? That's 264 miles a day..I can't think of any cruising cats that could average that day in and day out. I love cats but some of the statements made by the brokers are ridiculous.
Oh Bermans a expert allright---so expert he redirected a Lagoon delivery crew in the middle of winter in mid Atlantic---to head for Annapolis instead of Miami with the result of the Lagoon capsizing in a huge storm near bermuda and the crew dead... a real mf-ing expert--actually hes just a greedy broker
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:36   #79
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
A few points to make:

Sorry about the fuchsia. It will never happen again. LOL!
I think the OP is really interested in a comfortable small multi. For me that would be a Gemini although for real ocean cruising I would prefer something bigger with a little bit more bridgedeck clearance. Maybe a Seawind 1000XL or a L380. Or many others in this range.
The entire speed debate is without merit. People seem to nitpick everything quoted or posted here but the simple fact is a faster seaworthy boat is safer than a slower seaworthy boat. On another active thread they are discussing a slow mono that will probably only average 110 miles a day. I think all modern multis can beat that by a significant margin. Now, if you were near the really bad weather which boat would you rather be in.
Both Phil Berman and Gregor Tarjan have extensive multi history of about 30 years each. Berman won the Hobie worlds in the early 80s. Gregor Tarjan participated in the Americas cup and has owned numerous racing cats. Both have written numerous magazine articles and books and sailed on about every boat in every sea in every condition. These guys are experts. At least they are experts to me.
see below
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:54   #80
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

Still, the argument is sound.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:17   #81
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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This one ticks all the boxes especially price.
Catamaran 1989 Kennex 380 Catamaran For Sale

A nice looking boat by the pictures, but has it not been on the market for nearly a year now?
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Old 12-05-2012, 15:15   #82
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

They recently reduced the price by $100,000 so at $129,000 is worth a look.
I'm not sure about the time on sale tho.
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Old 12-05-2012, 15:50   #83
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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The problem with counting on being able to sail fast to get away from a storm's path, at least in the Tropics, is that the big ones will kill the Tradewinds before they arrive in your area, so you won't have much wind at all. You'll be motoring, so you'd better dial that into your strategies.
There's usually plenty of warning, and no shortage of wind when a cyclone is about. At least that's what I've seen with the last 20 or so cyclones in Queensland.
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Old 12-05-2012, 16:20   #84
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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There's usually plenty of warning, and no shortage of wind when a cyclone is about. (...)
Usually it is sunny and nice in Florida too!

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Old 12-05-2012, 16:44   #85
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

Dont know your location, here's a 35 for $1000 a foot!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/2987635507.html
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Old 12-05-2012, 16:46   #86
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Re: what is the smallest boat you take blue water cruising?

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Nothing wrong with sailing a small and a fast boat that may have the edge of sailing fast and away from a weather system. What IS wrong is building an assumption that this is the standing technique of managing bad weather in a small and fast boat.

If the weather is real bad, you may not be able to sail away from it. Hence, big or small, fast or slow, a boat must be built to take any and all weather that can be encountered in the proposed navigation.
+1

But 99%(?) of the time folks will get away with most things, even an unsuitable boat. But I guess for that 1% there is the big red button. But each to their own.

FWIW (nada), for me, a "BlueWater capable boat" is one that can cope with extended periods of bad weather (and allows crew to do the same) for when the boat is out of range of a safe port, that likely (but not neccesarily) means out in the deep.
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Old 12-05-2012, 17:54   #87
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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The problem with counting on being able to sail fast to get away from a storm's path, at least in the Tropics, is that the big ones will kill the Tradewinds before they arrive in your area, so you won't have much wind at all. You'll be motoring, so you'd better dial that into your strategies.
Totally. The calm before the storm. Happened to me. As for daily averages Also agree sailing 10+ knots an hour average is dreaming unless lucky or have a race boat, but if you had to turn on your engines crank them up and motor sail I am sure you can get this on many cats.
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Old 12-05-2012, 18:10   #88
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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There's usually plenty of warning, and no shortage of wind when a cyclone is about. At least that's what I've seen with the last 20 or so cyclones in Queensland.
Yeah - me too, hell last year I watched YASI, as in watched weather report and prognoses and in the time it took to get to land sailed 400 miles. And interestingly most if not all loss of boat was those that were tied up at Cardwell
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Old 12-05-2012, 18:47   #89
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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Totally. The calm before the storm. Happened to me. As for daily averages Also agree sailing 10+ knots an hour average is dreaming unless lucky or have a race boat, but if you had to turn on your engines crank them up and motor sail I am sure you can get this on many cats.
Yes, but you lost the sight of the (smallest, multihull, blue water) in this thread's title!

It takes a relatively big multi to make 10+ kts powersailing. I agree a Hobbie may sail at 10+knots but I am not sure every Lagoon will. How big does she need to be? 45+ feet perhaps? Calculators & Conversions

So, since we hardly ever go blue water in small fast cats, in the light of this thread's original question (blue water, cruising) , based on this 'start the engine and get de hella out of here', the answer would be 45+ or thereabouts.

But I think we will both agree that smaller than 45 can be taken blue water cruising too.

BTW We are all talking speeds and cyclones here. Meanwhile, how many cats are designed to take a spell of real bad weather offshore? One look at their HUGE and FLIMSY cockpit-bridgedeck doors and windows can make one ponder.

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Old 12-05-2012, 19:04   #90
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

Think it boils down to a few things. Build quality being one, in the case of a cat bridge deck clearance so a small cat with good bridge deck clearance could be fine if built well, but you will not have headroom inside, which maybe ok for some. I chose a 37' Corsair tri as a good balance, but I am not living off it but feel I could no problem. Most cruising monos are around 38'-40' which seems to suit many, so with the right quality build and bridge deck clearance I would say 38'-48' is ideal. If 38' cat needs to have bridge deck clearance and not packing everything on it like most people want. Keep it simple. Smaller is possible but really getting into the camping realm I feel. Also depends on how many people on board. 2 people a 37-38' mark is fine if you aren't packing a house with you. 46-48' cat living well and like a house with 4x the work keeping it up.

The question is do you need a washer/dryer aircon, generator, hot water heater 2-3 toilets etc etc. All need maintenance. Even a watermaker many people opt for not having one even when they circumnavigate.

You can hand wash easily, use solar bags or stove for hotwater, wind for air conditioning, collect rainwater when needed. Then spend all your free time enjoying all the new places you will be visiting.

Point being you can get away with a smaller boat that costs a lot less and in many ways more fun as you will not be spending your time maintaining. Just choose a design that is built well and have redundant safety with you.
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